***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[tooextracool]

Hoggard bowls predominantly outswing with a straight ball (bowled as a quickish off-spinner) for variation whilst Pollock is a seam bowler rather than a swing bowler..

Hoggard bowls predominantly outswing yes, but when he gets the ball to swing he also swings it in towards the batsman occasionally, but its meant solely as a surprise ball as opposed to bowling it over and over again. he had smith in absolute shambles in SA largely because Smith had no idea which way the ball was going. and if you think Shaun pollock is a seam bowler, than i really do question what you've been watching.

Jones swings the new ball away but only moves it both ways when reversing..

i'd like to hear about how he got Clarke out at Lords then...Jones bowled plenty of conventional inswingers at Trent Bridge.

Bracken has a big advantage over Hoggard and Pollock in that he is both taller and quicker plus left-handed.

i'd love to hear how Bracken is faster than Hoggard. really. if anything hes marginally faster than Pollock and hes actually lost pace since the last time we saw him against India.

 

[tooextracool]

I have seen quite a lot of Hoggard and havent observed him bowling an in-swinger. He does bowl off-cutters if you are confusing them with in-swing.

nope he swung it both ways in SA(and on other occasions), as graeme smith himself mentioned after the series. as said earlier, its more of a surprise ball than anything else.

 

[Hazza]

i'd like to hear about how he got Clarke out at Lords then...Jones bowled plenty of conventional inswingers at Trent Bridge.

He certainly bowled reverse swinging deliveries that came back to Clarke and the other Australian batsman, but i'm not sure he bowled a conventional inswinger.

 

[tooextracool]

Of the 3, Bracken swings it more than any on his day.....and you honestly can't think that the Gabba is the only place where he swings it.

I think you're placing just a weeee little bit too much emphasis on the conditions mate.

so howcome then he didnt even look like getting a wicket in the first innings then? its glaringly obvious that when the ball isnt swinging hes almost useless. and yes he maybe able to swing the ball in other conditions, but i doubt he is a natural swinger of the ball, and as such i believe that he relies almost completely on the conditions as a bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

He certainly bowled reverse swinging deliveries that came back to Clarke and the other Australian batsman, but i'm not sure he bowled a conventional inswinger.

that was at old trafford(the clarke one in particular) and edgbaston. at lords he didnt reverse swing the ball until the very end of the Australian innings. nor did he reverse the ball at TB.

 

[Hazza]

nope he swung it both ways in SA(and on other occasions), as graeme smith himself mentioned after the series. as said earlier, its more of a surprise ball than anything else.

I wonder why he doesn't try it in English conditions. Especially with the frequant overcast conditions.

 

[tooextracool]

I wonder why he doesn't try it in English conditions. Especially with the frequant overcast conditions.

he does when he gets the ball to swing. he swung the ball both ways at Trent bridge, but the fact is that in the last few years or so the number of times bowlers have managed to swing the ball conventionally in England(other than a few overs with the new ball) is massively overblown.

 

[Jono]

Wow Katich gone! Funny how only around 4-5 months ago I remember a topic when people were claiming he was the best Australian batsman in the team. Now I do rate Katich, but boy was that an exaggeration!

Interesting to see whether Symonds gets a game.

 

[age_master]

What the hell??

Brad Hodge playing for Australia is depressing

 

[aussie]

i'd love to hear how Bracken is faster than Hoggard. really. if anything hes marginally faster than Pollock and hes actually lost pace since the last time we saw him against India.

na i dont think so, i think he has gained a yard of pace during the super series ODI's & this test match i saw a few deliveries clocked at 137 kmh...

 

[aussie]

Brad Hodge playing for Australia is depressing

why is that?

 

[social]

Hoggard bowls predominantly outswing yes, but when he gets the ball to swing he also swings it in towards the batsman occasionally, but its meant solely as a surprise ball as opposed to bowling it over and over again. he had smith in absolute shambles in SA largely because Smith had no idea which way the ball was going. and if you think Shaun pollock is a seam bowler, than i really do question what you've been watching.




i'd like to hear about how he got Clarke out at Lords then...Jones bowled plenty of conventional inswingers at Trent Bridge.



i'd love to hear how Bracken is faster than Hoggard. really. if anything hes marginally faster than Pollock and hes actually lost pace since the last time we saw him against India.

Actually, I dont think Ive ever seen Pollock swing the ball consistently and Ive probably seen him play 30 tests. High arm action, seam upright, gets people out with seam and bounce.

Jobes bowled a few balls that moved away followed by dead straight delivery. Good bowling but no swing.

FYI, Hoggard rarely, if ever, got above 130 in the entire Ashes (he was decidedly medium pace ordinary for all bar one or 2 spells) whilst Bracken averages low 130s and is capable of bowling over 135.

Anything else you'd like me to enlighten you on.

 

[Top_Cat]

FYI, Hoggard rarely, if ever, got above 130 in the entire Ashes (he was decidedly medium pace ordinary for all bar one or 2 spells) whilst Bracken averages low 130s and is capable of bowling over 135.

Not true. I saw Hoggard get above 80-odd mph many times during the Ashes. Conversely, I noticed Bracken was generally high 120's and on occasions, low 130's in the WI Tests. Very rarely did I see him get above 135km/h. I'd say that, on average, Hoggard and Bracken would be largely exactly the same pace. Bracken, in fact, seems to be as slow with the ball as he's ever been. Whether that's deliberate or not, I can't say.

Anyway it's all academic; when I've face guys who were bowling at 130km/h and others who were around 140km/h, the difference was bugger-all at the business-end. It's been a while so someone currently playing high-level cricket could confirm this; Jack?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

why is that?

Well it really doesn't matter much who plays for Australia at the moment from the looks of things. Brad Hodge well engrossed in the middle of an ODesque knock at the moment.

 

[Prince EWS]

Tino Best 8-1-64-0, including 5 wides and 7 no-balls.... horrible figures if ever I've seen them.

Hodge has reached his century - hes now on 104 from 123 balls. Samuels the only bowler with a wicket to his name... not looking good at all for the West Indies. I wonder why Edwards has only bowled 4 overs though... sure they went for 15 runs, but those figures clearly look better than those of Best.

 

[social]

Not true. I saw Hoggard get above 80-odd mph many times during the Ashes. Conversely, I noticed Bracken was generally high 120's and on occasions, low 130's in the WI Tests. Very rarely did I see him get above 135km/h. I'd say that, on average, Hoggard and Bracken would be largely exactly the same pace. Bracken, in fact, seems to be as slow with the ball as he's ever been. Whether that's deliberate or not, I can't say.

Anyway it's all academic; when I've face guys who were bowling at 130km/h and others who were around 140km/h, the difference was bugger-all at the business-end. It's been a while so someone currently playing high-level cricket could confirm this; Jack?

You do realise that 80 mph is only 128ks?

And Hoggard rarely reached 80 mph in the Ashes.

When it comes down to bowler's pace and the impression it makes on a batsman, factors other than the speed that the ball leaves the bowler's hand come into play.

Lee might be a quick as anybody but he gives the batsman a much clearer view of the ball than, say, Tait, for example.

Tait also has the benefit of delivering from a non-traditional height and arm angle.

I sometimes struggled to pick balls up quickly when they were delivered by people with dark skin, especially in murky conditions in the north of England, as the ball was coming out of a darker back-ground than a white palm, wrist and arm.

There's probably other factors that distort one's vision of the ball, but they're all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Mike Hussey]

More poor bowling by the West Indies, Best has gone for 67 from 10 overs, Hodge, is on 114, off 130 balls, with 15 fours and two sixes.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I wonder why Edwards has only bowled 4 overs though... sure they went for 15 runs, but those figures clearly look better than those of Best.

Because Chanderpaul is an odd little man... and he may be using Edwards with care to prevent injury. After all, if Edwards gets injured, it's Best who slips in. Yikes.

 

[Top_Cat]

And Hoggard rarely reached 80 mph in the Ashes.

My recollection is different. I remember him going past the bat faster than 80mph relatively regularly.

When it comes down to bowler's pace and the impression it makes on a batsman, factors other than the speed that the ball leaves the bowler's hand come into play.

Lee might be a quick as anybody but he gives the batsman a much clearer view of the ball than, say, Tait, for example.

Tait also has the benefit of delivering from a non-traditional height and arm angle.

I sometimes struggled to pick balls up quickly when they were delivered by people with dark skin, especially in murky conditions in the north of England, as the ball was coming out of a darker back-ground than a white palm, wrist and arm.

There's probably other factors that distort one's vision of the ball, but they're all I can think of at the moment.

Of course. However, as I said, when faced with bowlers who bowled in the 130-140km/h range, there seemed to be nothing between them. Anything about 125km/h is enough to break bones. The point is, on the speed-gun, Bracken may be quicker than Hoggard sometimes but in that speed range, it means little.

 

[tooextracool]

na i dont think so, i think he has gained a yard of pace during the super series ODI's & this test match i saw a few deliveries clocked at 137 kmh...

a few deliveries here and there dont count, the last time he was playing test match cricket he was averaging about 135kph. on his return hes barely crossed 130kph and in the super series he was bowling below 130kph.