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***Official*** West Indies in Australia

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Prince EWS said:
If the Ashes taught us anything, it was that 4 good bowlers is superior to 2 great bowlers and 2 poor ones.
It is a very subjective issue what people may or may not define good. It is very difficult to have 4 good (bowlers who can perform consistently) test quality bowlers in one team. Any team with such an attack would be very strong.

Australia with 2 great, 1 good (The not Recent Gillespie) and a Kasporwicz (a stock bowler in most cases who can fill the role well ) or a Lee (ranging from poor to just below good) proved a potent attack.

So support bowlers who are not that good but just okay can also form a good attack with two great bowlers. In the Ashes apart from McGrath and Warne there wasnt a lot of support specially with Gillespie being spooked by some English ghosts.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Surprisingly Lee also has a FC average of around 17 and half (17.58) before this inning. Just that his test average is higher.

Both will increase as a result of this inning of course. And this would in fact be Lee's 5th FC 50 and 3rd test 50 if he gets it.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Pratyush said:
It is a very subjective issue what people may or may not define good. It is very difficult to have 4 good (bowlers who can perform consistently) test quality bowlers in one team. Any team with such an attack would be very strong.

Australia with 2 great, 1 good (The not Recent Gillespie) and a Kasporwicz (a stock bowler in most cases who can fill the role well ) or a Lee (ranging from poor to just below good) proved a potent attack.

So support bowlers who are not that good but just okay can also form a good attack with two great bowlers. In the Ashes apart from McGrath and Warne there wasnt a lot of support specially with Gillespie being spooked by some English ghosts.
I said poor bowlers though. Pre-Ashes Gillespie and Kasprowicz were not poor at all - I'd in fact put them in the "good" category.

So the Australian attack consisted of 2 great ones, and 2 good ones. Come Ashes time, Kasprowicz and Gillespie basically just didnt show up, and McGrath was injured for part of the tour, so left Australia with an attack primarily comprised of one great bowler (Warne), one okay bowler (Lee) and two rubbish ones (combination of Gillespie/Kaspa/Tait). When McGrath played, and was 100% fit, the attack improved substantially, but not enough.

My point was, West Indies have six okay-good bowlers (when all fit) in Collymore, Edwards, Powell, Lawson, Bravo and Collins, while New Zealand have 2 world class bowlers (for arguement's sake, I didnt even dispute the fact that Bond only plays once in a blue moon and Vettori's average is poor...) in Bond and Vettori, one okay-good one in Franklin, and two poor ones in Mills and Martin. Their best bowlers are superior to that of the Windies, but their support is weak, and their depth is non-existant.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Prince EWS said:
I said poor bowlers though. Pre-Ashes Gillespie and Kasprowicz were not poor at all - I'd in fact put them in the "good" category.
But my only contention is what exactly is good. It is a very subjective term. Now we would say McGrath and Warne are great. If we put Gillespie in the good category, Kasporwicz would have to be in a category below him (we are talking about these bowlers generally and not in a specific period when they have been crap or good). But then where would we slot say Tait who would be below Kasporwicz.

Which is why I mentioned that its a very subjective thing who would put whom where because of which the formula of 4 good > 2 great plus 2 poor maynot always work.

But if it is indeed easy to slot the bowlers into categories (as was the case during the Ashes) it works fine.

My only problem is the subjectivity, hope you are understanding that.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Mister Wright said:
And he wasn't that successful. One of his wickets in the 2nd innings was an absolute birhtday present from Sehwag.
i didnt say that he was, im just pointing out that he didnt get to bowl in overcast conditions, which you indicated.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Lunch and Australia aren't all out. Poor bowling from WI, and some good batting from Warne, Lee and Bracken.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Collymore has been bowling very well...he seems like another Srinath - beats the bat over and over and is extremely unlucky.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
howardj said:
The some speculation that Damien Martyn is on the verge of being recalled
Given how things are going, it's not that surprising, although I wonder how much Craddock actually knows? The whole 80%/20% thing seems deliberately vague, as if he pulled it out of thin air. If it had been 75%/25%, you might surmise that it meant that one of the selectors was against dropping Martyn, as it's a four-man team.

He's always come across to me as a hack though: "No matter how West Indies perform in the rest of this Test or the series, it can be said with some confidence they have the look of a team turning the corner."

Anyhow, I hope he's right about Martyn. It was a flat-out mistake, and personally, I don't buy all this "well, now it's done, and we have to keep moving forwards" crap.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
A career test strike rate of just around 35 for Bracken. But he has hardly played tests. In this inning he has had a strike rate of aound 75.

I havent been watching but was it a planned attack or just despatching the poor balls to the boundary or quality cricket strokes off good balls?

Also, generally in FC cricket does Bracken bat agressively or in the defensive mode?
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Pratyush said:
But my only contention is what exactly is good. It is a very subjective term. Now we would say McGrath and Warne are great. If we put Gillespie in the good category, Kasporwicz would have to be in a category below him (we are talking about these bowlers generally and not in a specific period when they have been crap or good). But then where would we slot say Tait who would be below Kasporwicz.

Which is why I mentioned that its a very subjective thing who would put whom where because of which the formula of 4 good > 2 great plus 2 poor maynot always work.

But if it is indeed easy to slot the bowlers into categories (as was the case during the Ashes) it works fine.

My only problem is the subjectivity, hope you are understanding that.
Yeah I see your point (although I disagree with putting Kasprowicz below Gillespie just prior to the Ashes - they were pretty even IMO.)

I only used the Ashes as an example. I was simply saying that two top class bowlers and two rubbish ones is not a better attack than 4 decent, but all test-class, bowlers.

Again the arguement of subjectivity would apply - who exactly deserves to be top class and who exactly deserves to "decent" etc - but thats why 5 pages of posting are for...
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Prince EWS said:
Yeah I see your point (although I disagree with putting Kasprowicz below Gillespie just prior to the Ashes - they were pretty even IMO.)
Not just prior to the Ashes. Over their careers. ;) But whatever.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Dasa said:
Collymore has been bowling very well...he seems like another Srinath - beats the bat over and over and is extremely unlucky.
He's wasting these balls to batsmen of this calibre! They'd be taking the edges of top-order batsmen.
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
age_master said:
did that Lee 6 really go out of the ground! thats a huge hit!
I think it did....

if so it's probably the first ever six to be hit out of the gabba ground..

You would have to say he hits the ball longer than anyone when he really connects..
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
Oh for chrissakes, a story on Bill Lawry's pigeons. I always knew this day would come.

Incidentally, did anybody notice Tony Greig's announcement yesterday, that they wouldn't be hawking memorabilia products during the Channel Nine coverage anymore? He made a mumbling reference to the store section of the website. I wonder if they got a lot of feedback on this issue after the SBS coverage of the Ashes... Either way, thank god.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Slow Love™ said:
Oh for chrissakes, a story on Bill Lawry's pigeons. I always knew this day would come.

Incidentally, did anybody notice Tony Greig's announcement yesterday, that they wouldn't be hawking memorabilia products during the Channel Nine coverage anymore? He made a mumbling reference to the store section of the website. I wonder if they got a lot of feedback on this issue after the SBS coverage of the Ashes... Either way, thank god.
I did! How good is that? :)

Next they'll bring in the analyst :p
 

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