**Official** West Indies domestic season 2010

[Craig]

Rawl Lewis eh? Now there was a joke of an internatioonal cricketer if there ever was one...

 

[WindieWeathers]

But if they're not scoring heaps of runs in West Indian domestic cricket, how on earth can they be expected to perform at the highest level?

I'm amazed at the way you continue to talk down the likes of Gayle and Chanderpaul, despite them scoring genuinely impressive runs at the highest level in the recent past. Gayle scored 2 excellent hundreds in the Test series against Australia, and Chanderpaul's only had 4 bad games; which is surely something you can let him get away with considering his averages in his 5 series before the 2 he's failed in have produced batting averages of 82, 43, 147, 101 and 59? I'm failing to see how someone like Darren Bravo could come in and score consistent runs like Chanderpaul has done, at the highest level, when he's not even capable of doing it in domestic cricket. Getting rid of proven class talent and replacing them with youngsters that aren't ready for the International arena is what will keep you rooted to the bottom of the rankings list, not the other way round.

I just think that Chanders is on the way down, it's not just about "four games" he's also been poor in ODI's too, and Gayle has been utterly disgraceful recently against the Aussies, i'm an advocate for bringing through young players, some disagree with that and that's their choice but the way some of our "seniors" have been playing i'd rather watch our young stars gain experience than see them jokers embarrass the great WI shirt again, Darren Bravo has scored around 100 runs in three innings so if he'd had started the seasons for T&T i'd be inclined to believe he'd be one of the top run getters.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Barath makes 58 and 79 on comeback. Unfortunately he gave away 2 centuries with loose strokes against Rawl Lewis. Darren Bravo is currently on 41 not out having made 36 in the 1st innings. Encouraging comebacks for the two youngsters then but they need to try and kick on next week in the final round.

Meanwhile Braithwaite made a brilliant 20 not out to steer Barbados home against Jamaica (). In all seriousness though he looks the goods and although he got out after getting a start in 3/4 innings he just looks the part. I reckon he will be in the West Indies test team by the start of next years home series after dominating an A team tour and having a prolific domestic tournament. I'm sort of with WindieWeathers when it comes to KB as he clearly has the technique and attitude to succeed at test level but I'd prefer it if he has at least a1 years worth of FC domination before introducing him to international cricket.

Edit: Bravo goes for 42 trying to get quick runs to speed up the declaration. I seem to have developed some fine goatmouth skills......

Spot on Beamer!! , there's some players you see at a young age that's just got that "x factor" and Kraigg's got it in abundance, i'll say it now that if he develops the way he should he can be as good as the great Brian Lara, that's how highly i rate him, him and Barath opening for us in the future will be a great day for WI cricket, also Shannon Gabriel was tearing it up again apparently, the kid is a speed demon , and Andre Fletcher got himself another 42 runs on the board, the way he's going i wouldn't be surprised if he's the top run scorer this season, now that he's Winwards wicketkeeper again i pray he works on that part of his game and puts pressure on Ramdin from now on.

 

[shivfan]

Barath makes 58 and 79 on comeback. Unfortunately he gave away 2 centuries with loose strokes against Rawl Lewis. Darren Bravo is currently on 41 not out having made 36 in the 1st innings. Encouraging comebacks for the two youngsters then but they need to try and kick on next week in the final round.

Meanwhile Braithwaite made a brilliant 20 not out to steer Barbados home against Jamaica (). In all seriousness though he looks the goods and although he got out after getting a start in 3/4 innings he just looks the part. I reckon he will be in the West Indies test team by the start of next years home series after dominating an A team tour and having a prolific domestic tournament. I'm sort of with WindieWeathers when it comes to KB as he clearly has the technique and attitude to succeed at test level but I'd prefer it if he has at least a1 years worth of FC domination before introducing him to international cricket.

Edit: Bravo goes for 42 trying to get quick runs to speed up the declaration. I seem to have developed some fine goatmouth skills......

This is the part I agree with, and the part I have always agreed with....

he's only just started playing for Barbados, and will have played only half a season this year. He needs a full season for Barbados next year, and if he continues to produce with the bat, then he should be called up. However, if he struggles next season (always possible!), give him some more time in FC cricket.

But what I've always said is that KB is not ready for WI duties yet, and should not be selected to play for the region this year....

Good to see Barath and Lil Bravo getting runs for Trinidad, though a bit disappointed they didn't get tons. We should see both of them back in the WI side for the ODI series against Zimbabwe though....

Chanderpaul may well be on his way down. But given how often he's rescued WI in the past, he at least deserves to play for the WI against Zimbabwe and South Africa before we can judge whether he's going thru a mini-slump or is on the decline.

Windie, the point that seems to elude you is that there's very little difference between deciding whether a batsman should be dropped after one Test or four. What's your benchmark?

 

[WindieWeathers]

Brathwaite won the match for Barbados yesterday against title contenders Jamaica!!., but oh no "he's crap" ShivFan .

 

[WindieWeathers]

This is the part I agree with, and the part I have always agreed with....

he's only just started playing for Barbados, and will have played only half a season this year. He needs a full season for Barbados next year, and if he continues to produce with the bat, then he should be called up. However, if he struggles next season (always possible!), give him some more time in FC cricket.

But what I've always said is that KB is not ready for WI duties yet, and should not be selected to play for the region this year....

Good to see Barath and Lil Bravo getting runs for Trinidad, though a bit disappointed they didn't get tons. We should see both of them back in the WI side for the ODI series against Zimbabwe though....

Chanderpaul may well be on his way down. But given how often he's rescued WI in the past, he at least deserves to play for the WI against Zimbabwe and South Africa before we can judge whether he's going thru a mini-slump or is on the decline.

Windie, the point that seems to elude you is that there's very little difference between deciding whether a batsman should be dropped after one Test or four. What's your benchmark?

So should Barath not get into the WI side because he hasn't got a 100 this season Mike? i mean according to you if a batsman doesn't get a 100 he's rubbish right?

 

[shivfan]

Once again, you're totally misinterpreting my points, Windie....

Barath, like Shiv, is now an incumbent. Any pretender seeking to dethrone them should outperform them at domestic level.

My point is that a batsman needs a run in the side, either to prove he's up to the task, or to prove that he's going thru a blip and can regain his form. It's pointless dropping a batsman just because he's had a bad three or four Tests....

That's chop-and-change selections that plagued English cricket in the 1980s....

 

[WindieWeathers]

This is the part I agree with, and the part I have always agreed with....

he's only just started playing for Barbados, and will have played only half a season this year. He needs a full season for Barbados next year, and if he continues to produce with the bat, then he should be called up. However, if he struggles next season (always possible!), give him some more time in FC cricket.

But what I've always said is that KB is not ready for WI duties yet, and should not be selected to play for the region this year....

Good to see Barath and Lil Bravo getting runs for Trinidad, though a bit disappointed they didn't get tons. We should see both of them back in the WI side for the ODI series against Zimbabwe though....

Chanderpaul may well be on his way down. But given how often he's rescued WI in the past, he at least deserves to play for the WI against Zimbabwe and South Africa before we can judge whether he's going thru a mini-slump or is on the decline.

Windie, the point that seems to elude you is that there's very little difference between deciding whether a batsman should be dropped after one Test or four. What's your benchmark?

My benchmark is he's been poor for over a year, i think that's long enough to judge whether a guy is on the way down, yes he's rescued us IN THE PAST but as i keep saying Mike we can't live in the past anymore, it's time to look towards the future. we've got some wonderful talent coming through and hopefully this year will be the last we see most of these seniors.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Once again, you're totally misinterpreting my points, Windie....

Barath, like Shiv, is now an incumbent. Any pretender seeking to dethrone them should outperform them at domestic level.

My point is that a batsman needs a run in the side, either to prove he's up to the task, or to prove that he's going thru a blip and can regain his form. It's pointless dropping a batsman just because he's had a bad three or four Tests....

That's chop-and-change selections that plagued English cricket in the 1980s....

If it's down to Fc form then should Fletcher replace Chanders then? because Andre is on his way to becoming the top batsman this season so he'll have "proved" himself right?.

 

[shivfan]

If it's down to Fc form then should Fletcher replace Chanders then? because Andre is on his way to becoming the top batsman this season so he'll have "proved" himself right?.

On his way? Really? How many half-centuries has Fletcher converted to tons this domestic season so far?

if you're judging Shiv on the past year, then you have to include the entire Test series he batted against England. What is his average there, and then compare them to the averages of the other batsmen in the side over that same time period....

Remember, Shiv has struggled with injuries over the past year as well. It's not a matter of 'living in the past'. It's also about ensuring you have a correct mix of experience and youth in your side.

 

[WindieWeathers]

On his way? Really? How many half-centuries has Fletcher converted to tons this domestic season so far?

if you're judging Shiv on the past year, then you have to include the entire Test series he batted against England. What is his average there, and then compare them to the averages of the other batsmen in the side over that same time period....

Remember, Shiv has struggled with injuries over the past year as well. It's not a matter of 'living in the past'. It's also about ensuring you have a correct mix of experience and youth in your side.

So Fletcher's got over 300 runs, is fourth in the leading runs tally even though he's played less matches than the three guys above him and has claimed five 50 and over scores this season but oh no "lets write that off because he hasn't got a 100 yet"? neither has Barath this season so should he be dropped? i don't care about 100's, i think we should judge them on the amount of runs they get for the whole season, and seeing as Andre is just 26 runs away from top spot i'm confident he'll finish very high up indeed, and if you want to talk about Shiv against England what about his performances against them IN England then? .

 

[shivfan]

You really should care if a batsman has difficulty scoring tons at domestic level, because if they can't do that at home, how can they be expected to do it against top class opposition? That's the big question mark I have over the likes of Fletcher, haynes and Edwards....

Once again, you're totally ignoring my point, and adding your own twist to it. Barath is the incumbent, and it's up to those three to prove that they're better than he is.

Talking about Shiv in two Tests in England is pretty skewed thinking, because England in May is totally alien conditions. No visiting team has ever won a Test match against England that began and ended in May, largely due to the swinging conditions, and the cold weather.

Now, let's look at the WI batsmen in the calendar year 2009:

Sarwan 9 Tests ave 60
Gayle 10 Tests ave 49
Nash 10 Tests ave 36
Shiv 9 Tests ave 35
Dwayne Bravo 3 Tests ave 29
Ryan Hinds 5 Tests ave 13

The other batsmen did not play much, so I instead chose to look at their career Test averages....

Dowlin 4 Tests ave 41
Barath 2 Tests ave 34
Deonarine 5 Tests ave 29
Simmons 3 Tests ave 14

Now, of this group, I would say the only two I would not consider for the Test series against SOuth Africa would be Hinds and Simmons, because they have disappointed in 2009. Sarwan and Gayle have performed well, and Dowlin did okay, while those in the 30s I think have done enough to merit another run against the Saffers - Nash, Shiv, Barath. Bravo's batting is a bit inconsistent, and probably shows that he shouldn't be batting at six, but rather seven. Interestingly, when he didn't play in the Caribbean against England, the West Indies won. Deonarine's career average is improving, so he deserves to be in the mix, IMHO....

Now, it remains to be seen if any of the batsmen currently playing in the domestic four-day competition now deserves to be included in the Test squad ahead of the above batsmen (assuming we're no longer considering Simmons and Hinds, of course). To date, I've not seen any impressive returns from the new, young batsmen to say, call this guy up now!

Of course, the bowlers are a different kettle of fish....

 

[shivfan]

It's going to be interesting to see how long the Windwards can hold out against Trinidad, and how many wickets Guyana lose before they knock off the target....

Barbados's win over Jamaica suddenly makes the title challenge a two-horse race.

 

[WindieWeathers]

You really should care if a batsman has difficulty scoring tons at domestic level, because if they can't do that at home, how can they be expected to do it against top class opposition? That's the big question mark I have over the likes of Fletcher, haynes and Edwards....

Once again, you're totally ignoring my point, and adding your own twist to it. Barath is the incumbent, and it's up to those three to prove that they're better than he is.

Talking about Shiv in two Tests in England is pretty skewed thinking, because England in May is totally alien conditions. No visiting team has ever won a Test match against England that began and ended in May, largely due to the swinging conditions, and the cold weather.

Now, let's look at the WI batsmen in the calendar year 2009:

Sarwan 9 Tests ave 60
Gayle 10 Tests ave 49
Nash 10 Tests ave 36
Shiv 9 Tests ave 35
Dwayne Bravo 3 Tests ave 29
Ryan Hinds 5 Tests ave 13

The other batsmen did not play much, so I instead chose to look at their career Test averages....

Dowlin 4 Tests ave 41
Barath 2 Tests ave 34
Deonarine 5 Tests ave 29
Simmons 3 Tests ave 14

Now, of this group, I would say the only two I would not consider for the Test series against SOuth Africa would be Hinds and Simmons, because they have disappointed in 2009. Sarwan and Gayle have performed well, and Dowlin did okay, while those in the 30s I think have done enough to merit another run against the Saffers - Nash, Shiv, Barath. Bravo's batting is a bit inconsistent, and probably shows that he shouldn't be batting at six, but rather seven. Interestingly, when he didn't play in the Caribbean against England, the West Indies won. Deonarine's career average is improving, so he deserves to be in the mix, IMHO....

Now, it remains to be seen if any of the batsmen currently playing in the domestic four-day competition now deserves to be included in the Test squad ahead of the above batsmen (assuming we're no longer considering Simmons and Hinds, of course). To date, I've not seen any impressive returns from the new, young batsmen to say, call this guy up now!

Of course, the bowlers are a different kettle of fish....

But Ramdin getting two tons this season for Trinidad proves that it really doesn't make you competent at Test level, for me it's all about TECHNIQUE, for example i believe Brathwaite has already got a better technique than that glorified slugger Chris Gayle, the kid knows every stroke in the book, and i think Andre does too, he can get his 4's and 6's but he can also nick 1's and 2's with no problem now, that's something which he's added to his game this season, he's also more calmer i believe, as for the South Africa test, i don't even know what to think about it, if it's the same guys in the starting eleven then i fear we may be embarrassed again, i guess it depends on how much influence Gibson has between now and then.

 

[shivfan]

But Ramdin getting two tons this season for Trinidad proves that it really doesn't make you competent at Test level, for me it's all about TECHNIQUE, for example i believe Brathwaite has already got a better technique than that glorified slugger Chris Gayle, the kid knows every stroke in the book, and i think Andre does too, he can get his 4's and 6's but he can also nick 1's and 2's with no problem now, that's something which he's added to his game this season, he's also more calmer i believe, as for the South Africa test, i don't even know what to think about it, if it's the same guys in the starting eleven then i fear we may be embarrassed again, i guess it depends on how much influence Gibson has between now and then.

Technique can only carry you so far, if you're not able to concentrate for long periods of time. It's what there is between the ears. If WI teams were selected on technique alone, Richard Staple would've been in the WI side for a long run. Carl Hooper had a great technique, but under-achieved because his ability to concentrate was poor.

Fletcher does not have a good technique. He's just a slogger. Until he's called up to play for WI in the ODIs, I don't see any reason why I should think otherwise....

Brathwaite has a good technique, and potentially a good mindset too, but as Beamer says, it would be wise to let him have a full season for Barbados first before considering him for WI selection.

As for Gayle, until there are six or seven batsmen who average higher than him in Test cricket over a calendar year, then he should stay in the side. What matters is how much you produce for the side.

Windwards lose a wicket....

153-6 now.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Technique can only carry you so far, if you're not able to concentrate for long periods of time. It's what there is between the ears. If WI teams were selected on technique alone, Richard Staple would've been in the WI side for a long run. Carl Hooper had a great technique, but under-achieved because his ability to concentrate was poor.

Fletcher does not have a good technique. He's just a slogger. Until he's called up to play for WI in the ODIs, I don't see any reason why I should think otherwise....

Brathwaite has a good technique, and potentially a good mindset too, but as Beamer says, it would be wise to let him have a full season for Barbados first before considering him for WI selection.

As for Gayle, until there are six or seven batsmen who average higher than him in Test cricket over a calendar year, then he should stay in the side. What matters is how much you produce for the side.

Windwards lose a wicket....

153-6 now.

When you've got fantastic technique as a young player it can take you far because mentle strength can be gained by experience, i'd much rather have a batter who more often than not gets over 50 runs seven times out of ten than a slugger like Gayle who gets maybe a 100 once and below 20 nine times, i see Barath's opening partner for Trinidad (Justin Gullien) has had a good season, and guess what? he's even got one of those "100's" you've been going on about , he's also 6th in the most runs tally so according to your logic he deserves a chance right?.

 

[shivfan]

When you've got fantastic technique as a young player it can take you far because mentle strength can be gained by experience, i'd much rather have a batter who more often than not gets over 50 runs seven times out of ten than a slugger like Gayle who gets maybe a 100 once and below 20 nine times, i see Barath's opening partner for Trinidad (Justin Gullien) has had a good season, and guess what? he's even got one of those "100's" you've been going on about , he's also 6th in the most runs tally so according to your logic he deserves a chance right?.

Yeah, Guillen has been good, and I think he might be an option, if he finishes the season well....

Probably not for ODI cricket, since he's a slowish accumulator, much like Shiv. My only concern is that his 361 runs have come at an average of 36. I would like to see him end the season with a flourish, and get that average closer to 45.

I know my criteria is a tough one, but this is what I'd like to see our potential batsmen do this season:

1) Play an entire domestic season.

2) Average over 40 for the season.

3) Hit at least one century during the season.

4) Finish in the top ten run-getters for the season.

I'm not asking too much, now, am I?

Barath fulfilled all four 'requirements' last season....

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah, Guillen has been good, and I think he might be an option, if he finishes the season well....

Probably not for ODI cricket, since he's a slowish accumulator, much like Shiv. My only concern is that his 361 runs have come at an average of 36. I would like to see him end the season with a flourish, and get that average closer to 45.

I know my criteria is a tough one, but this is what I'd like to see our potential batsmen do this season:

1) Play an entire domestic season.

2) Average over 40 for the season.

3) Hit at least one century during the season.

4) Finish in the top ten run-getters for the season.

I'm not asking too much, now, am I?

Barath fulfilled all four 'requirements' last season....

I know we should have high expectations for our young players but Barath is a special talent, there's not many like him around so to expect everyone else to do what he's done is a little harsh imo, anyway it looks like someone agrees with my views about the Zimbabwe tests.

Murray calls for youthful squad against Zimbabwe

Kevin Sunich

22 Feb 2010

West Indies skipper Chris Gayle looks out of it after another defeat at the hands of Australia.

Former West Indies wicketkeeper Deryck Murray said the regional side could come away with little, after its 4–0 series defeat at the hands of Australia in the One-Day Internationals (ODI’s), which ended on Friday with the host claiming a 125-run win at the Melbourne Cricket Ground (MCG). Murray said, “There have been one or two performances in each match from time to time, which will only serve as a little boost for the individuals. You had Keiron Pollard, Narsingh Deonarine, Darren Sammy and Dwayne Smith scoring some runs, but it was not anything extra special.

“There were no hundreds scored, and no bowler was able to pick up a five wicket-haul. As a team we did not look good at all. We were not competitive, and for most of the times, we were just out of it.” Murray indicated. The former T&T Cricket Board (TTCB) president said it showed that the team was lacking. “There was nothing significant to say that the team is turning the corner. The performance was miserable and something has to be done.” He said this should serve as a wake up call to the new coach, Otis Gibson.

“There is need for a total revamp of the whole system, and hopefully the Board and WIPA could get their acts together and help in this effort. “We need all the terrorities and the board to start focusing from the grassroots level, and try to build a team which could see the Windies back at the top of world cricket in the next seven years, and not hoping for something to happen overnight.” said Murray. Murray said the inclusion of Smith should help to strengthen the side.

“Dwayne has been playing some good T20 cricket over the last three years and he should be able to give the side a lift, however, from all indications the team does not seem to have the spark to push it to victory,” said Murray. Meanwhile, he feels that some more of the young players should be given an opportunity to wear the regional colours during the home series against Zimbabwe, which starts next Friday. “The selectors should use some of the Under-19 players and mix them with some of the young players from the present squad. If the same players from the tour ‘Down Under’ plays, they will make runs, however this will only lead to a false achievement,” he said.*

Link

And people thought i was alone with that notion? that's an INSIDER talking there, and an ex pro to boot, and i totally agree, lets blood some young players instead of beating Zimbabwe 5-0 with the same old faces, the more gems we uncover the the better our prospects will be.

 

[roseboy64]

It's thinking like yours that's allowed players to just get by with being mediocre just because they're promising. Every other team uses performance as a judge for selection, why should the WI be different?

 

[Craig]

Daren Ganga had/s a great technique, but look at his Test record...