*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[Sanz]

It's incorrect. As you missed it above, he clarified on his statements before the test had even began. Check the dates.

The article doesn't claim that Warnie said this after he went wicketless in 1st innings.The article is merely wondering about the Warnie was trying to make with that statement. If you open the link, There is a 'Spectacular U Turn No 1' about Ricky. He also made his statement before the test started.

No one is an Aussie hater here, It's just that some aussies jump up to defend every stupid statement of aussie players. Check the forum out, Ricky is praised immensly for his batting and so is Warne for his bowling.

 

[Jono]

All I'll say is no one forced him to mention that he hadn't played a test against Bangladesh and only one against Zimbabwe.

 

[Ikki]

The article doesn't claim that Warnie said this after he went wicketless in 1st innings.The article is merely wondering about the Warnie was trying to make with that statement. If you open the link, There is a 'Spectacular U Turn No 1' about Ricky. He also made his statement before the test started.

No one is an Aussie hater here, It's just that some aussies jump up to defend every stupid statement of aussie players. Check the forum out, Ricky is praised immensly for his batting and so is Warne for his bowling.

Pardon, the article didn't say it? It did everything BUT say it. Warne ate humble pie? And then they go quote what he said before the tests even began? That's insinuating Warne changed his opinion after the fact but it's wrong. It happened a few days earlier. 8th of April mate, that is when he clarified his statements. I can't see why people can still vilify him further. I think it's others that should be eating some humble pie here.

All I'll say is no one forced him to mention that he hadn't played a test against Bangladesh and only one against Zimbabwe.

Reporter: Have you played against these teams often.

Warne: I haven't played against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe that often.

I have friends who are journalists, they do it all the time. I wouldn't be surprised in the LEAST if that was the case. Easy target.

 

[aussie]

well Warne said he was quoted out of context when he made his comment, so who are we to doubt the great man?

 

[Sanz]

Pardon, the article didn't say it? It did everything BUT say it.

In that case same can be said about Warnie's statement about Murali Taking Bangladeshi Wickets.

Warne ate humble pie?

Yes he did, Look at his first test first inning figures.

And then they go quote what he said before the tests even began? That's insinuating Warne changed his opinion after the fact but it's wrong.

It's not insinuating anything, its all an assumption of your mind.

It happened a few days earlier. 8th of April mate, that is when he clarified his statements. I can't see why people can still vilify him further. I think it's others that should be eating some humble pie here.

It doesn't matter when it happened, the point remains the same, that he made a U turn. He was in Bangladesh trying to do the same thing (which is take wickets against Minnow) which he accused Murali of. If he was quoted out of context then why did he wait months before saying that 'he was misquoted'. He accused Murali of taking minnow wickets and then was in the BD trying to do the same, Hence change of heart about 'Cheap Minnow Wickets'.

I have friends who are journalists, they do it all the time. I wouldn't be surprised in the LEAST if that was the case. Easy target.

Yeah blame it on the media. Warnie was actually praising Murali for taking Bangladeshi wicket, it was the media that quoted him out of the contxt.

 

[Sanz]

well Warne said he was quoted out of context when he made his comment, so who are we to doubt the great man?

Why didn't he say so then. Why wait for close to a year and basically say it before the first test against the minnow.

And btw Warnie is a Great man only when he bowls, He is worse than eminem when he speaks.

 

[Dasa]

If it's just journalists quoting out of context, why don't we see it happen more often with other players? Could it be that some Aussie players (namely, Ponting and Warne) actually do talk crap sometimes? Or can they do no wrong?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It's not insinuating anything, its all an assumption of your mind.

Oh come off it. Read it again.

"It wasn't just the skipper eating his words. Shane Warne found himself tucking into more than just his usual cheese toasties when he was force-fed a large slice of humble pie after a first-innings mauling. "I did say that players like Murali had taken a lot of wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe whereas I have only played one Test against Zimbabwe," Warne said, no doubt also feeling the pinch. "But I did not mean to say that others were going after cheap wickets as had been made out to be." Leaving aside the fact that there is little other interpretation of this statement - what else did he mean? - Warne failed to pick up a single wicket in the first innings, returning bloated figures of 0 for 112 from 20 overs, his second-worst in Tests. He may have bounced back with 3 for 28 in the second innings, but by then he was already stuffed".

In each of the bolded sections, the writer CLEARLY implies that Warne made the comments after he got belted.

First it is claimed that Warne is eating his humble pie after his mauling - meaning presumably that he made a silly comment and now he is suffering for it because he got belted, and is therefore backtracking. Notice how it says he eats the humble pie after a first innings mauling, and THEN displays the quote. The clear implication there is that the quote is him eating the humble pie, when in fact it comes from before the test.

In the second bit it re-enforces the original point, suggesting that Warne is concerned about his own reputation, therefore he is "feeling the pinch" and changing his stance.

In the third bit, it again implies that Warne is attempting to take back his comments because of his figures.

The fact of the matter is that Warne retracted his comments BEFORE the test against Bangladesh began. For those who criticised his comments, this should be worthy of praise. Think about it, Warne made a comment which was viewed as Murali-bashing... then he comes out at first opportunity and retracts the statement in his own cryptic and bizarre way. This means that he was either misquoted or misrepresented, or that he simply realised he was wrong and wanted to make amends. Either way, it seems like the right thing to come out and retract his comments. The suggestion from cricinfo that he was doing it to cover his tracks is a clear example of the absurd lengths that people will go to in an effort to ridicule Warne, when he gives them plenty of ammo as it is.

Incidentally, the same article has a similarly unfounded suggestion made about Ponting, where it claims that Ponting made his media statement before the test saying he was wrong about Bangladesh because he was forced to by Cricket Australia.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

If it's just journalists quoting out of context, why don't we see it happen more often with other players? Could it be that some Aussie players (namely, Ponting and Warne) actually do talk crap sometimes? Or can they do no wrong?

It does happen with other players. For example, remember Wasim Akram's recent comments that he didn't like the ICC because it was ran by white people? Since claimed to be the result of misquoting from journalists.

 

[Sanz]

It does happen with other players. For example, remember Wasim Akram's recent comments that he didn't like the ICC because it was ran by white people? Since claimed to be the result of misquoting from journalists.

And how many of us ran to defend Wasim for making that stupid remark ? On the other hand please take a look at the way most aussie fans have jumped to defend Warnie and Ponting.

 

[dinu23]

Warne was humiliated by the Bangladeshi batsmen!
enough said.

 

[Sanz]

Oh come off it. Read it again.
The fact of the matter is that Warne retracted his comments BEFORE the test against Bangladesh began. For those who criticised his comments, this should be worthy of praise. Think about it, Warne made a comment which was viewed as Murali-bashing... then he comes out at first opportunity and retracts the statement in his own cryptic and bizarre way.

Why should we praise for retracting his statement about cheap wickets He clearly said that ""I think two divisions is something that should be thrown up and talked about. Otherwise I think it devalues the brand....Too many people are getting Cheap wickets and Cheap runs....It'd be interesting to name the top five cricketing nations and then see six, seven, eight, nine, 10 and who they are."...."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Cricket/No-more-cheap-wickets-runs-Warne/2005/04/11/1113071914905.html

This means that he was either misquoted or misrepresented, or that he simply realised he was wrong and wanted to make amends. Either way, it seems like the right thing to come out and retract his comments.

No, I dont think you can be misquoted again and again, Warnie has often talked about 'Cheap Wickets' (see the link above), first in April 2005 and then again in december 2005. Why would people keep quoting you, why didn't they quote Anil Kumble ? And no it's not the right time to retract, right time would have been immediately after it appeared in the newspapers. If anything, it sounds hypocritical. When he wasn't getting to play against minnow, he accused others of getting cheap wickets/runs, when his turn came, he claims he was misquoted. Sorry I dont buy that.

The suggestion from cricinfo that he was doing it to cover his tracks is a clear example of the absurd lengths that people will go to in an effort to ridicule Warne, when he gives them plenty of ammo as it is.

Okay You were right about it, the article does insinuate as if Warne made his statement after he got the beating whereas that is not the fact and my apologies to you and Kaz.

 

[Sanz]

Think about it, Warne made a comment which was viewed as Murali-bashing... then he comes out at first opportunity and retracts the statement in his own cryptic and bizarre way. This means that he was either misquoted or misrepresented, or that he simply realised he was wrong and wanted to make amends.

This is what Warnie actually said :-

"It would be nice if it (the new record) lasted another 25 years, but I don't think it will. There's a lot more cricket being played these days and you have teams like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in there, with some teams playing them a lot more (than others). I've never played a Test against Bangladesh and only one against Zimbabwe, but there are some teams out there that play them a lot. And some blokes bowl at one end all day against those sort of countries and take lots of wickets. I'm sure that whoever those people are, they might get it (the record) next year."

I dont see it any less insinuating than the CricInfo article, but may be aussies do. It's not the first time he took a jibe against Murali, In 2004 he did the same after equalling the World record with Murali :-

"I'm proud of myself to equal the record, The wickets I have always played on for my whole career, most of them have been to suit fast bowlers in Australia. In Sri Lanka, they obviously prepare wickets that suit him. They spin square from ball one, so he's obviously got a lot more of a chance than I have."

 

[Ikki]

If it's just journalists quoting out of context, why don't we see it happen more often with other players? Could it be that some Aussie players (namely, Ponting and Warne) actually do talk crap sometimes? Or can they do no wrong?

This thread is the perfect example and is why I used it. Look at the Cricinfo article. It clearly is going for glamour by vilifying Warne. Whether this is true or not is second nature to some people who just WANT to have some reason to bash Warne.

I think his main problem is he isn't a political person, the same with many of the Aussies. He gets asked a question, he'll answer it straight, oblivious to the fact that they'll probably want to misquote him even if they don't. The thing with most of the Aussies are, even if you don't like what they've done and they know you won't, they won't lie. They'll be honest about it. If need be, cop it. But whenever they haven't done something and are honest about it, it's not believed.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

And how many of us ran to defend Wasim for making that stupid remark ? On the other hand please take a look at the way most aussie fans have jumped to defend Warnie and Ponting.

Pretty much everybody assumed it must have been a misquote, which indeed it was. That is in fact the point.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Why should we praise for retracting his statement about cheap wickets He clearly said that ""I think two divisions is something that should be thrown up and talked about. Otherwise I think it devalues the brand....Too many people are getting Cheap wickets and Cheap runs....It'd be interesting to name the top five cricketing nations and then see six, seven, eight, nine, 10 and who they are."...."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Cricket/No-more-cheap-wickets-runs-Warne/2005/04/11/1113071914905.html

I'm not denying Warne made the comments, actually. Warne has made the point in the past that Murali (without actually saying his name) takes a lot of wickets against the weaker sides. Murali has in turn criticised Warne's record against India.

I think what Warne was trying to do was diffuse the situation a bit by saying that while he did say that Murali takes a lot of wickets against weaker sides, he wasn't trying to criticise Murali as a bowler, because you can only play the opposition you are given. The thing is, that cricinfo report making fun of Warne doesn't mention that, it makes him sound like he made comments which make no sense at all.

Check out the full article that Kaz linked, Warne says:

"But I did not mean to say that others were going after cheap wickets as had been made out to be," said Warne, the world's leading bowler in Tests with 674 scalps in 138 matches.

"As a batsman or a bowler your role is to go out there and try to get the maximum runs and wickets against the opposition, whatever it is," he added.

So, what Warne is trying to say is that while Bangladesh and Zimbabwe aren't very good sides and Murali has a lot of wickets against them, he wasn't actually saying that Murali wanted to inflate his record by playing them a lot, he just bowled against the teams he faced. The cricinfo article left out that part. That's part of what being misquoted is... it doesn't mean you didn't say the words in question, it's just taking it out of context for one reason or another.

Okay You were right about it, the article does insinuate as if Warne made his statement after he got the beating whereas that is not the fact and my apologies to you and Kaz.

Thanks.

 

[Ikki]

Okay You were right about it, the article does insinuate as if Warne made his statement after he got the beating whereas that is not the fact and my apologies to you and Kaz.

No problem.

 

[Jono]

Incidentally, the same article has a similarly unfounded suggestion made about Ponting, where it claims that Ponting made his media statement before the test saying he was wrong about Bangladesh because he was forced to by Cricket Australia.

What made him change his mind then? And why the hell did he make the comment in the first place?

Unlike Warne there is no way in hell you can argue he was misquoted because what he implied was clear as crystal.

 

[Francis]

It's nothing new that people jump all over the Aussies for no good reason.

Take Ponting, he asks teams to accept fieldmens word when they take a catch, all refuse to agree with him. He asks again at the ICC captains metting and they refuse again. That's the end of the issue. Tony Greig made the excellent point to note that had the captains agreed, we wouldn't have the Aussies standing up to fieldsmen who've taken catches. People say Ponting's a hypocrit, but the terms were set before the game. If an Aussie hits a catch to somebody that they didn't catch, but accept his word, then if an opponent hits a catch but stands his ground, who has the unfair advantage? Understand? Why should Ponting play on terms that help the opposition? He shouldn't.

I read what Warne said a few months ago and I felt it was taken out of context.

And that match hasn't changed my mind about Bangaldesh. They're still cheap wickets, so are Zimbabwe. Warne bowled awefully and never hit his spots. Anybody thinking that was Warne at half of his best is wrong. It's just another reason not to trust stats. This time last year Warne could've taken 20 wickets in this series against Bangaldesh. He played after a long tour where he bowled more overs than anybody else and was having shoulder irritations. Still is.

Warne may have had to eat humble pie, but everybody knows the truth that Bangladesh are cheap wickets and that Warne was no where near his best. Warne's last three wickets were an absolute joke, complete bunnies that he didn't deserve.

 

[Francis]

I'll also add that I think Warne should retire soon. He's been overbowled since the Ashes, and granted he performed for most of 2005. But it started to catch up to him against South Africa. His last six tests against South Africa weren't his best. Compare them to his past figures against South Africa. His average is much worse.

He can't go through one game without showing some strain on his shoulder. Warne may get more wickets without McGrath, but his shoulder can't seem to carry the teams bowling.

I expect him to retire after the 2007 Ashes.