*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[Ikki]

Actually, found something:

Booze wrecked my marriage: Warne

London: Shane Warne has admitted to late-night drinking sessions during the 2005 Ashes series.

The former Australia leg-spinner's marriage to then-wife Simone had reached a low point and Warne revealed he would drink heavily before crying himself to sleep in the team hotel.

Warne, who was in London this week promoting his new book 'Shane Warne's Century', told the Australian Daily Telegraph: "At night I'd lay there and go 's**t, when am I going to see my kids?'

"There were times I'd sit there and drink in my mini bar until three in the morning just to get to sleep, set the alarm, wake up and say: 'here we go again'.

"I cried a fair bit when I was by myself. I'd say to myself 'You d***head, what are you doing? What have you done?'"

 

[GotSpin]

Does or doens't a debutant face more pressure than a 100 test veteran.Yes or no

Warne might well be the better all round player,I have not disputed that.As a bowler,Murali slightly ahead for mine.

Depends on the situation and team but I'd say a veteran is under more pressure than a debutant in many more situations than the reverse.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but when concluding Murali as the better bowler by means of excluding statistics and performances due to a hostile crowd is something I take issue with.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Now I like Murali and I know he doesn't throw it, but even the biggest Murali fan has to admit that, even if just a little bit, it does look like he's throwing it. Hair had a reason. He was wrong, mind you, but there was reasoning behind it.

But surely he couldn't have chucked a leg break?

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, comparing personal life breakdown caused largely by the individual's own issues, to being professionally booed on ground for which the individual is as to blame as Mother teresa is for the Nam.

Get back to me when you've instances of Warne having rotten egg thrown on his face while touring sri lanka.

Why does it matter how the issues were caused? We're talking about how it affected them on the pitch.

Get back to me when you make sense.

 

[Burgey]

This is going beautifully.

 

[GotSpin]

This is going beautifully.

back in you hole old man

 

[Sir Alex]

Why does it matter how the issues were caused? We're talking about how it affected them on the pitch.

Get back to me when you make sense.

Lol.

Who are you to judge how both issues would've affected them in exactly the same manner?

So you think Nelson Mandela is same as the average murderer who served a life sentence?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Depends on the situation and team but I'd say a veteran is under more pressure than a debutant in many more situations than the reverse.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but when concluding Murali as the better bowler by means of excluding statistics and performances due to a hostile crowd is something I take issue with.

When did I say that his stats in Aus must be excluded?Now YOU are putting words in my mouth.I only said that his stats in Aus shouldn't be taken at face value.The hostile crowd wasn't the crux of my argument.If it was only the hostile crowd,I wouldn't even say anything.About this newbie vs veteran thing-in 2005 Warne was already a legend despite his mama's pill controversies.He didn;t have anything left to prove to anyone.Murali in 1995-or whatever year it was- was a newbie.He wasn't even assured of a place in the side.

 

[GotSpin]

When did I say that his stats in Aus must be excluded?Now YOU are putting words in my mouth.I only said that his stats in Aus shouldn't be taken at face value.The hostile crowd wasn't the crux of my argument.If it was only the hostile crowd,I wouldn't even say anything.About this newbie vs veteran thing-in 2005 Warne was already a legend despite his mama's pill controversies.He didn;t have anything left to prove to anyone.Murali in 1995-or whatever year it was- was a newbie.He wasn't even assured of a place in the side.

Thought it was pretty much implied since you discounted them

in 2005 Warne had the pressure of an entire nation on his shoulders at one of the biggest ashes series while also battling enormous, and public, personal issues. Far more pressure than an unknown.

 

[Ikki]

Lol.

Who are you to judge how both issues would've affected them in exactly the same manner?

So you think Nelson Mandela is same as the average murderer who served a life sentence?

You didn't answer the question. What relevance does it have who inflicted their worries on them if they were both worried and had problems on the pitch?

I didn't make a statement saying one event is going to affect one guy more than the other. Stop digressing. Your example doesn't make sense and doesn't relate.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Thought it was pretty much implied since you discounted them.

More like what you wanted it to imply.

in 2005 Warne had the pressure of an entire nation on his shoulders at one of the biggest ashes series while also battling enormous, and public, personal issues. Far more pressure than an unknown.

It was one of the biggest only because it was closely fought...at the start of the series no one thought it would be closely fought at all...Aus were by far the firm favourites.You are time and again trying to confuse me and everyone else by mixing issues.Warne's issues were his own doing..his personal life...have no relation to what he does on the field.Murali's issues were-everything is not black and white.Murali is the better bowler,albeit not by much.End of discussion.

 

[GotSpin]

I.As for Murai's record in Aus-well that was the time when all the chucking controversy started and the Australian crowds behaviour towards Murali was despicable.With that in mind I would not take Murali's average against Aus in Aus at face value..

Seems like you were implying that they be discounted to a degree fairly strongly

More like what you wanted it to imply.



It was one of the biggest only because it was closely fought...at the start of the series no one thought it would be closely fought at all...Aus were by far the firm favourites.You are time and again trying to confuse me and everyone else by mixing issues.Warne's issues were his own doing..his personal life...have no relation to what he does on the field.Murali's issues were-everything is not black and white.Murali is the better bowler,albeit not by much.End of discussion.

It doesn't matter what people thought before the series, but rather, during it.

Regardless of whether they were his own fault or not, there's denying they would have had immense effect. Just because they were self-inflected does not negate the potential impact.

Murali's issues seem pretty black and white to me. He had an aesthetically dodgy looking action at the time

 

[BoyBrumby]

Now I like Murali and I know he doesn't throw it, but even the biggest Murali fan has to admit that, even if just a little bit, it does look like he's throwing it. Hair had a reason. He was wrong, mind you, but there was reasoning behind it.

Exactly.

I'll hold my hand up and say I'm at best a Murali agnostic, but in those simpler times if a bloke looked like he was chucking he was occasionally called for it. &, under the laws that pertained at the time, he was, technically anyway. It just transpired more or less every other bowler was as well.

What ****s me about the whole debate tho is that even if one concedes Murali is marginally the better bowler, any coach or selector would (were he forced to chose) opt for Warne because of what else he brings as a cricketer.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I clearly mention that I wouldn't take his average at face value so your post isn't making any sense...but then your posts seldom do. By your logic,Warne is a drug cheat.It does not matter that it was never proven he actually did drugs but only took a susbtance that might have been used to mask the presence of drugs.Everything is in black and white after all...

 

[GotSpin]

I clearly mention that I wouldn't take his average at face value so your post isn't making any sense...but then your posts seldom do. By your logic,Warne is a drug cheat.It does not matter that it was never proven he actually did drugs but only took a susbtance that might have been used to mask the presence of drugs.Everything is in black and white after all...

I don't understand what you just said at all

I said that the Murali issues being discussed were fairly black and white. I don't see everything that way.

 

[Sir Alex]

What ****s me about the whole debate tho is that even if one concedes Murali is marginally the better bowler, any coach or selector would (were he forced to chose) opt for Warne because of what else he brings as a cricketer.

Not the IPL. Warne went for 450k against 600k for Murali.



Agree seriously. But Murali never was given a chance tbh to prove how good a captain or coach he would be.

 

[honestbharani]

Because taking a catch dismisses the batsmen, stopping the ball saves a run. In the long form of the game, the former is infinitely more important.

But saving a run could result in a wicket as well and if you do win the match by one run or so, that run stopped has just as much value as any wicket taken...


The thing is, the game ebbs and flows and all of this, catches, misfields, good stops, drops... they all contribute to that. It is superfluous at best and stupid at worse to try and mark out which is more important than what.. It all depends on the context.

 

[honestbharani]

Are we talking about cricket here, or communism?

Cricket.. but not surprised you didn't get it..

 

[vic_orthdox]

But saving a run could result in a wicket as well and if you do win the match by one run or so, that run stopped has just as much value as any wicket taken...


The thing is, the game ebbs and flows and all of this, catches, misfields, good stops, drops... they all contribute to that. It is superfluous at best and stupid at worse to try and mark out which is more important than what.. It all depends on the context.

I understand what you are saying, but in the end, all that pressure of the stopped runs and saves are there to try and create more chances. It's the chances that count the most in the end.

 

[honestbharani]

I understand what you are saying, but in the end, all that pressure of the stopped runs and saves are there to try and create more chances. It's the chances that count the most in the end.

Definitely... they count more but it also depends on the stage of the game... Like Waugh dropping Srinath in that last ball and still managing to stop the runs and running him out in the 92 WC game against India...