*Official* Third Test (Headingley, Leeds) 6–10 July

[Spark]

Ok...apologies. My mistake.

How would he have such a recent record if he hasn't played? Anyway, there's plenty of players who's shield record hasn't transferred to tests (and vice versa). Green's is mediocre after 23 matches.

I used the recent record being the last three or four seasons because I strongly believe that one Sheffield Shield season is a meaninglessly small sample size and that going off it leads to Rob Quineys, Ed Cowans and Alex Doolans getting picked and quickly discarded when everyone immediately sees that journeymen don't become any more than journeymen on the back of one season.

Green's batting record is fine. It's not amazing, it needs to be better, but it's fine for someone of his age, experience and role. These three games - three games - are the first serious setback he's had in Tests since the home Ashes, since then he was consistently good to excellent with the bat in the subcontinent, which I need not remind are a set of tours that has swallowed many an Australian batsman whole. This idea that he's been a nonentity in Tests that's been thrown around the media is purely a product of our myopic Ashes obsession at the exclusion of all other Test cricket. I'm not saying that he's batted well or even that he's a shoe in for the next game, but if we're keeping David Warner around on the basis that the alternative is Marcus Harris then we have no basis for discarding Green. We simply don't have enough batsmen dominating FC cricket to take such luxuries, and most of the batsmen that do dominate Shield cricket are journeymen. Let's not try Peter Handscomb in England again.

 

[chris.hinton]

Mitchell Marsh only played 1 SS match last season. Borland played 5.

Does it make a difference

 

[Spark]

Mitchell Marsh only played 1 SS match last season. Borland played 5.

Does it make a difference

The reason they didn't is because they were picked for international games

 

[chris.hinton]

I used the recent record being the last three or four seasons because I strongly believe that one Sheffield Shield season is a meaninglessly small sample size and that going off it leads to Rob Quineys, Ed Cowans and Alex Doolans getting picked and quickly discarded when everyone immediately sees that journeymen don't become any more than journeymen on the back of one season.

Green's batting record is fine. It's not amazing but it's fine for someone of his age, experience and role. These three games - three games - are the first serious setback he's had in Tests since the home Ashes, since then he was consistently good to excellent with the bat in the subcontinent, which I need not remind are a set of tours that has swallowed many an Australian batsman whole. This idea that he's been a nonentity in Tests that's been thrown around the media is purely a product of our myopic Ashes obsession at the exclusion of all other Test cricket. I'm not saying that he's batted well or even that he's a shoe in for the next game, but if we're keeping David Warner around on the basis that the alternative is Marcus Harris then we have no basis for discarding Green. We simply don't have enough batsmen dominating FC cricket to take such luxuries, and most of the batsmen that do dominate Shield cricket are journeymen. Let's not try Peter Handscomb in England again.

Sutherland was the leading wicket taker in the Sheffield Shield. Is he good enough to play for Australia?

 

[Spark]

Sutherland was the leading wicket taker in the Sheffield Shield. Is he good enough to play for Australia?

I wouldn't be surprised to see him in squads in the next few summers but he's very much a bowler first so is competing in a much more competitive group. 5-for and 80-odd in the Final certainly is nothing to sneeze at.

In terms of who could be the next top order prospect the name you'll hear thrown around here is usually Campbell Kellaway, he bats top order for Victoria and has done okay for himself given that he's only 20. Also has a good head for pressure if his exploits in the BBL final are anything to go by.

e: nvm confused him for Connolly.

 

[wpdavid]

Maybe Australia will decide when England announce their side a couple of days pre the test and if Broad is selected or not , re the retention of Warner

this reminds of the summer when Terry Alderman had Graham Gooch in his back pocket to the extent Gooch voluntarily left the squad

There's a memory, and not a happy one. From memory, Gooch's scores in 1989 make Warner look positively Bradmanesque. Didn't Gooch change the message on his answerphone to 'I'm out, LBW to Alderman'?

 

[ashley bach]

New Zealand v Australia in Rugby Union

 

[Spofforth]

I used the recent record being the last three or four seasons because I strongly believe that one Sheffield Shield season is a meaninglessly small sample size and that going off it leads to Rob Quineys, Ed Cowans and Alex Doolans getting picked and quickly discarded when everyone immediately sees that journeymen don't become any more than journeymen on the back of one season.

Green's batting record is fine. It's not amazing, it needs to be better, but it's fine for someone of his age, experience and role. These three games - three games - are the first serious setback he's had in Tests since the home Ashes, since then he was consistently good to excellent with the bat in the subcontinent, which I need not remind are a set of tours that has swallowed many an Australian batsman whole. This idea that he's been a nonentity in Tests that's been thrown around the media is purely a product of our myopic Ashes obsession at the exclusion of all other Test cricket. I'm not saying that he's batted well or even that he's a shoe in for the next game, but if we're keeping David Warner around on the basis that the alternative is Marcus Harris then we have no basis for discarding Green. We simply don't have enough batsmen dominating FC cricket to take such luxuries, and most of the batsmen that do dominate Shield cricket are journeymen. Let's not try Peter Handscomb in England again.

I generally don't read mainstream journalism/media. If age is holding him back, let him mature first. He had a good performance in a high scoring draw in India which is good of course. But I doubt these last 3 games are really that unusual.

You certainly do a good impression of "he's a shoe in" then, for someone that doesn't think that lol.

Greens batting is mediocre and somewhat disappointing. Looks pretty, but who cares. If he is the best batsman we have because everyone else is rubbish, then it is what it is, but that's not a good thing.

Warner has had a stellar career (in Aus at least) and been around. Can't compare him to Green. I'd happily move Marnus and Smithy up a spot and fit Renshaw or Marsh in somewhere to get rid of Warner anyway.

 

[Nintendo]

No, just one of many instances where part timers help get things done. The same way Head had better figures than Green at Lords. Worth noting the no 6 actually scored 160 and 60 in that SCG match. Good attacks shouldn't need to weaken the batting to cover for them. Unless there are unusual circumstances, but it shouldn't be run of the mill.



Your spinner should be able to hold one end. 400 isn't anything beyond what 3 quicks and a spinner could handle. If it's a flat pitch the poms will do that in 80 overs. We have bowler rotations anyway.

Bowling options that weaken the batting makes no sense general. Green isn't that good anyway, a bit of a Trundler. I'm tipping he might make a batsman when he gives up on the bowling.


*recent* shield form. Last 18 months/ 2yrs is better than Green (which isn't that good). Century for the PM's 11 also.

Anyway, you brought Renshaw up not me. I'm not pushing anyone in particular, just pointing out that Green is way overrated. It can be worth carrying such players if they can be match winners capable of turning series (Flintoff for instance). Unlikely for Green, nothing so far indicates it might happen.



The underlined is objectively not true. Green is further down the list than Renshaw but neither are standouts.

I would prefer not to have a repeat of his predecessor, the bloke who played in his spot recently (and played quite well). No one showed more promise than him at one stage. Was a sacred cow for too long because of it, to the detriment of all concerned (himself and the team).

Green's figures don't demand selection nor require that a place in the team be kept for him. S Waugh was (rightly) dropped (for his brother to boot) with far better figures and came back stronger. Hell, even Bradman was dropped early on. We should be looking for the best batsman we can find for our no 6.

And Green IS in the 6 best batsmen in the coyntry. Hes thr best bat not named Travis head, marnus Labuschagne, Steven Smith or usman khawaja. You bring up the past 2 years of shield, when greens barely played BECAUSE he's too busy playing international cricket. When he was playing shield cricket before his debut he made 6 hundreds and 1200+ runs at a ridiculous average and in his only game for Aus-A made a 100 vs India when noene else could buy a run.

 

[Nintendo]

I generally don't read mainstream journalism/media. If age is holding him back, let him mature first. He had a good performance in a high scoring draw in India which is good of course. But I doubt these last 3 games are really that unusual.

You certainly do a good impression of "he's a shoe in" then, for someone that doesn't think that lol.

Greens batting is mediocre and somewhat disappointing. Looks pretty, but who cares. If he is the best batsman we have because everyone else is rubbish, then it is what it is, but that's not a good thing.

Warner has had a stellar career (in Aus at least) and been around. Can't compare him to Green. I'd happily move Marnus and Smithy up a spot and fit Renshaw or Marsh in somewhere to get rid of Warner anyway.

He's had 2 bad tests and before that spent a WTC cycle averaging 36-37 with the bat and won us multiple tests in the SC and at home with the bat. That's perfectly fine for a 23 YO who's dominated the shield and for Aus-A.

The batting doesn't even consider the fact that last WTC he took his poles at under 30. The idea of dropping him for renshaw who just played in india and made Chris Martin look competent, or a proven failure like Harris whose not had the same run that got Green into the team in the first place us crazy.

Marsh had a fantastic game, but even after that he's still the second worst #6 off all time (with as many games or more as he's played).

 

[mustardcharlie]

It's what I do best.

We know.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

That Woakes knock was *chef's kiss*

Courageous, chanceless, magnificent.

 

[CartyDurham]

I’ve no idea re rugby Union. I thought they would be enemies

 

[ashley bach]

I’ve no idea re rugby Union. I thought they would be enemies

Enemies and rivals indeed but more often than not an extreme mismatch.

 

[Spofforth]

He's had 2 bad tests and before that spent a WTC cycle averaging 36-37 with the bat and won us multiple tests in the SC and at home with the bat.

Only two you say? Who to believe, you or my own lying eyes....? Which tests did he win with the bat? His only century so far has been in a draw. Think he's only scored two 50's outside of Aus.

His average has been up and down (trending down at the moment at 34) for a couple of years in the 30-36 region. Below 35 is not something to write home about. A SR in the 40's. Fair enough if you're playing with a set batsman I s'pose or going for a draw. I doubt that's why though and more because he can't turn over the strike early. If he sorted out being able to get up the other end occasionally I think he has some potential for an opener. Maybe another Watto...35 with bat, 33 with ball isn't terrible for an opener who bowls (though I doubt Green will keep an average below 40 with the ball).

That's perfectly fine for a 23 YO who's dominated the shield and for Aus-A.

I don't care how old he is (24) as much as how he performs. After 23 matches he hasn't done all that much. Phil Hughes and Adam Voges (greatest ftb of all time?) dominated shield too. If I'm not mistaken so did Marsh?

The batting doesn't even consider the fact that last WTC he took his poles at under 30.

Then put him in the attack.

Or don't cherry pick, then he is getting his "poles" at 36+. What sort of average does he have outside of Aus? (to help you out it seems to be 77 at a strike rate of 123).

The idea of dropping him for renshaw who just played in india and made Chris Martin look competent, or a proven failure like Harris whose not had the same run that got Green into the team in the first place us crazy.

I didn't bring up Renshaw. My point is that he has had a fair run and been mediocre. He shouldn't be pencilled in perpetually on "promise". At some point you gotta call it and say it hasn't translated to test success, unless you're happy with a low to mid 30's batsman at no 6. Will soon be time to look for next in line (who hasn't already failed). Shield success isn't everything or necessarily predictive.

Marsh had a fantastic game, but even after that he's still the second worst #6 off all time (with as many games or more as he's played).

Had lots of promise though. Kept him going for years.

 

[Socerer 01]

Only two you say? Who to believe, you or my own lying eyes....? Which tests did he win with the bat? His only century so far has been in a draw. Think he's only scored two 50's outside of Aus.

His average has been up and down (trending down at the moment at 34) for a couple of years in the 30-36 region. Below 35 is not something to write home about.

should drop that scrub Stokes England should, only averages 32 since Green’s debut

 

[Spofforth]

And Green IS in the 6 best batsmen in the coyntry. Hes thr best bat not named Travis head, marnus Labuschagne, Steven Smith or usman khawaja. You bring up the past 2 years of shield, when greens barely played BECAUSE he's too busy playing international cricket. When he was playing shield cricket before his debut he made 6 hundreds and 1200+ runs at a ridiculous average and in his only game for Aus-A made a 100 vs India when noene else could buy a run.

But he's been mediocre at test level. Time he started earning his keep.

 

[Spofforth]

should drop that scrub Stokes England should, only averages 32 since Green’s debut

Think this might help you out.

 

[Socerer 01]

Think this explains that response.

bro can’t handle facts

 

[Spofforth]

bro can’t handle facts

Bro doesn't get logic.