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***Official*** Sri Lanka in India

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
Excellent point, I think he's the best of the fast bowlers when it coems to this. He gets it up in the blockhole most times than not, and if he does get back into the team he'd be best. I'm still not a fan of Nehra, but I'm not going to deny what he's good at, which is bowling at the death.

Oh and LOL Dasa. Shouldn't you be studying for Melb Uni exams? Hey, shouldn't I be too :p
Nehra bowls more good overs than any other Indian pacer including Pathan but....
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Jono said:
Oh and LOL Dasa. Shouldn't you be studying for Melb Uni exams? Hey, shouldn't I be too :p
Haha I probably should, but....I have no credible excuse :) .
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
1)

With Kaif back, here is my idea batting order (Assuming Rao is dropped for Kaif)

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Kaif
Dravid
Yuvraj/Rao
Dhoni
Yadav
Pathan
Agarkar
Harbhajan
Kartik/Srees Santh etc.

Super Sub: Raina or any bowler that wants to be used.

s.
Absolutely. I was referring to the team as of now with no Kaif yet .Otherwise I totally agree.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Sanz said:
Actually, he was pretty unsuccessful as a batsman in his first year as captain..when he averaged around 35 with the bat in tests and then he went onto play in SL where the series was played on the flattest possible wicket ever (remember 950 score by SL ?) and despite that his avg. was around 45 something. He definately dis much better in his second stint though. Even in ODIs his batting avg. dips by 7 runs per innings.

So I dont know how you can say that his batting was not affected by his captaincy.



Exactly.. And if that is the case then why does media come up with stories like...SRT suggested Pathan's promotion, SRT's field change advice led X batsman's dismissal etc etc. To me it sounds more like Hero worshipping...and nothing else. when things go well ..it was due to SRT, when things dont go well it was the captain's fault.
Actually Sanz, captaincy is not just about tactical ability. Sachin has always had a good cricketing brain. If you had noticed, even during Sourav's reign, Sachin will always come up and offer his bit of tactical advice, almost all the time. It was his man management and spotting of talented cricketers that was the problem, alongside his inability to handle all the politics of being a captain. This is not something new. I have always believed he was like an unofficial vice captain in the side. He came up with the idea of him bowling around the wicket to squeeze the runs against Pak etc. Obviously there are days when his tactics or ideas don't work, like in the last game when he gave his inputs and they obviously didn't work.


You are right in one respect. Most of the guys in the media are making it seem as though everything Sachin does works. That obviously is not true. And the media are also making it seem as though this is the first time Sachin is offering his tactical inputs. He has always done that, when India have won and when India have lost. But the point is, when he is not in the side, it is a big loss. He brings a lot more to the side than just runs and (occasional) wickets. He has a good tactical brain and can offer some new ideas to the captain, can cheer up the youngsters by talking to them (as you said, he is the GOD of Indian cricket and so many guys get motivated just because of him talking to them). You cannot disregard all that. Yes, he can improve on his play in the big matches, but CHOKER is too big a term. It is not like the knock out games are the only ones that have pressure.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
honestbharani said:
Actually Sanz, captaincy is not just about tactical ability. Sachin has always had a good cricketing brain. If you had noticed, even during Sourav's reign, Sachin will always come up and offer his bit of tactical advice, almost all the time. It was his man management and spotting of talented cricketers that was the problem, alongside his inability to handle all the politics of being a captain. This is not something new. I have always believed he was like an unofficial vice captain in the side. He came up with the idea of him bowling around the wicket to squeeze the runs against Pak etc. Obviously there are days when his tactics or ideas don't work, like in the last game when he gave his inputs and they obviously didn't work.


You are right in one respect. Most of the guys in the media are making it seem as though everything Sachin does works. That obviously is not true. And the media are also making it seem as though this is the first time Sachin is offering his tactical inputs. He has always done that, when India have won and when India have lost. But the point is, when he is not in the side, it is a big loss. He brings a lot more to the side than just runs and (occasional) wickets. He has a good tactical brain and can offer some new ideas to the captain, can cheer up the youngsters by talking to them (as you said, he is the GOD of Indian cricket and so many guys get motivated just because of him talking to them). You cannot disregard all that. Yes, he can improve on his play in the big matches, but CHOKER is too big a term. It is not like the knock out games are the only ones that have pressure.
Well said Honest, he adds something. Just like if Dravid was out of the team for an extended period of time, when he returned you would just see something more. Sachin and Dravid clearly work well together, and back when Ganguly was in the team I'd always feel confident when all 3 of these guys were talking in the middle, because they all added something to the team and often could come up with good plans. They didn't always work, and sometimes they didn't have the resources for these plans to succeed, but it was vital.

With Ganguly out (he was no tactical genius, but brilliant at player-management and bringing confidence to the players) Tendulkar is EVEN MORE vital to the team when it comes to morale and confidence. If I was Rao or Raina and Sachin came up to me giving me a compliment or some simple advice I know it'd make me strive even more to succeed and increase my confidence. All these little things help.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
honestbharani said:
u reckon ur grandpa could bowl a decent yorker? If he can, ask him to get in touch with Chappell. ;) :p
That really doesn't have anything to do with fitness ;)

I'm sure he could get it up in the blockhole anyway, but chasing the ball around the boundaries after his over is finished would be a certain problem. I'm sure he could use his feet in an unorthodox and ugly way like Nehra does to stop the bowl going to the boundary :P

Oh and LOL SJS! ;) I'd like to see my Grandpa do the 'aeroplane' wicket celebration whilst tightening his lips as if he wants to kiss someone like Nehra does when he gets a batsman out ;)
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
This is a great moment in cricket history. The fact that great AA is a dad now means he is taking up added responsibility. There can be no better proof.

People are going ga ga over Sachin when clearly the focus should be on the great AA!

Ajit Bhalchandra Agarkar

Too bad no one makes threads like

Ajit Agarkar is the greatest fast bowler
Ajit Agarkar is the future of India cricket
Ajit Agarkar has become a dad
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
He is still playing that role in ODIs, I'd prefer he doesn't play tests though. I think his 'use by' date is definitely done for that, with his last crowning moment the Adelaide Test in 2003.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Sanz said:
Obviously 51.35 is greater than 58.97 (his avg. when he wasn't the captain) ;).

Anyways - if he was so successful as captain and if it wasn't affecting his batting then why did he quit it, twice ?
however you put it, 51.35 isn't a failure, a choker's average....in fact it was a superb batting average in the 90s....

he was successful as a batsman when he was captain, he wasn't all that successful as a captain.....

he always had a good cricketing brain but his management of players left a bit to be desired so he never got the best out of his players, also he was captain in the infamous match-fixing era, who knows how many matches the *******s managed to throw during that period.....
 

Sudeep

International Captain
Sanz said:
Exactly.. And if that is the case then why does media come up with stories like...SRT suggested Pathan's promotion, SRT's field change advice led X batsman's dismissal etc etc. To me it sounds more like Hero worshipping...and nothing else. when things go well ..it was due to SRT, when things dont go well it was the captain's fault.
If I'm not wrong, it was Dravid who said Sachin suggested Pathan's move up the order. I even read his lips, if my ears might not be 100% attentive.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
He also made it a point to get in a lot of Mumbai players who he had seen more often and thought that they were good. (There were reports that he was under pressure from the West selector, whoever it was at that time, to do his "bit" for Mumbai cricket). He was obviously not the best guy to lead the side back then.
Shhhhh..dont say this..Pratyush will come and bash you for making such assumptions.

Anyways..The fact is that SRT wasn't above the petty politics either,he would back useless players from mumbai..why else would we have players like Bahutule, Kulkarni(Nilesh), Jatin Paranjpe, hrikesh kanitkar...etc in the team. Infact one of his fav. Agarkar is still in the team.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Sudeep said:
If I'm not wrong, it was Dravid who said Sachin suggested Pathan's move up the order. I even read his lips, if my ears might not be 100% attentive.
Of course Dravid said that..but the way media has gone crazy after that is really shamefull..Does the media report all the bad moves SRT has suggested in his career ?

And besides what is the big deal ? SRT is a senior member of the team, he has always given his suggestion, it's not like something that happened for the first time. It is the captain who has to decide what is best for the team and he should be getting the credit not SRT because SRT wont be willing to share the blame when Agarkar bowls crap, is he ? :p
 

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