*Official* South Africa Tour of the West Indies, AUGUST 6th to 26th, 2024-- 2 TESTS & 3 T20Is

[Bahseph]

RE: Ngidi. It really isn't fair because Rabada is a freak but the fitness standards between the two is so stark. He really is a wonderful bowler when he is fit but I don't think he can be trusted as part of a 3 man pace attack with one being Mulder.

Where does Jansen fit in when he is back? Is he now competing with Burger/Ngidi/Coetzee as the second seamer or is he the guy that gets left out when we need two spinners?

 

[Chin Music]

RE: Ngidi. It really isn't fair because Rabada is a freak but the fitness standards between the two is so stark. He really is a wonderful bowler when he is fit but I don't think he can be trusted as part of a 3 man pace attack with one being Mulder.

Where does Jansen fit in when he is back? Is he now competing with Burger/Ngidi/Coetzee as the second seamer or is he the guy that gets left out when we need two spinners?

Surely he is in contention with Burger? Don't know so much about Coetzee.

 

[Bahseph]

For the Windies, the bowling stocks look good! I have long thought that Seales is the real deal and Joseph has some fitness issues but it's a good 1-2. Honestly Holder is hanging around (He shouldn't be at 6. 7 is a push) then I don't think playing Alzarri is that bad. He needs to not have the new ball and bowl shorter spells to his strengths.

The batting is another issue though. Braithwaite gets a free pass but he has an average of 33 after over 90 games. I'm less inclined to give him a pass the way I am Athanaze or Carty/Hodge.

I'm also tired of the talk of the Windies best players not being there. Holder is proof that you can play some T20 gigs and be in the Test side. I genuinely don't think Hetmeyer/Pooran want to do the hard yards.

 

[TT Boy]

Yep, Markram and Bedingham both need to step up. Stop playing the shot of the day and start consistently playing the innings of the day.

Looking forward to seeing how Stubbs does also. I hope he finds that balance between grinding it out and the attacking he did in T & T. He found it difficult here,but he was up against two superb pacers and you can see he has so much talent.

I thought Markram did ok. Didn’t look fluent, it was a struggle given their game is not suited for these wickets, but he spent a lot of time at the crease and returns were not too bad in challenging conditions.
Bedingham did not have a good series. Chucked their wicket away in Trinidad when set and didn’t seem to respect the Windies. He is the best batsman South Africa has and the importance of that needs to be made clear irrespective of the number of caps he has.

Concern for South Africa going into the Bangladesh series is the top order penchant for playing spin deep in their crease on the backfoot. Kallis and Amla used to do that, but they were special, and it started with an initial movement forward and then back. Markram, Bavuma and Mulder all got done like that in Guyana and Bedingham plays like that as well. Stubbs and Verreynne using their feet and sweeping look far more assured.

 

[TT Boy]

RE: Ngidi. It really isn't fair because Rabada is a freak but the fitness standards between the two is so stark. He really is a wonderful bowler when he is fit but I don't think he can be trusted as part of a 3 man pace attack with one being Mulder.

Where does Jansen fit in when he is back? Is he now competing with Burger/Ngidi/Coetzee as the second seamer or is he the guy that gets left out when we need two spinners?

No shame with Ngidi being considered for home or even Highveld tests only. He wasn’t fit enough for these conditions, he can’t conceivably play in Bangladesh, and if that isn’t ever going to change, then he shouldn’t be selected as he will end up doing himself harm and he has been plagued with injuries. He isn’t the bowler we saw in 2017 on debut or against India in 2018.

 

[Northerner]

I find Ngidi a very frustrating bowler , in the ODIs he looks the part, but with test cricket after his first spell of bowling he seems to lose interest and a bit of venom in his bowling, his fitness is suspect too,, may be the ODIs should be what he concentrates on , just my opinion based on what i have seen.

 

[Beamer]

For the Windies, the bowling stocks look good! I have long thought that Seales is the real deal and Joseph has some fitness issues but it's a good 1-2. Honestly Holder is hanging around (He shouldn't be at 6. 7 is a push) then I don't think playing Alzarri is that bad. He needs to not have the new ball and bowl shorter spells to his strengths.

The batting is another issue though. Braithwaite gets a free pass but he has an average of 33 after over 90 games. I'm less inclined to give him a pass the way I am Athanaze or Carty/Hodge.

I'm also tired of the talk of the Windies best players not being there. Holder is proof that you can play some T20 gigs and be in the Test side. I genuinely don't think Hetmeyer/Pooran want to do the hard yards.

I think they need to pick Pooran and make him say no to tests. Then we all know where we stand. He can then score a gazillion T20 runs, continue to make his millions, and so be it. No one has even tried to select him due to this nonsense rule about playing our FC season.

Kraigg plays because we have no other option, but he is most definitely the worst player ever from the Caribbean to play 90-plus tests, both in style and substance. If you ever need a symbol of how far we have fallen in our batting, he is it. In fact, is he the worst specialist batsmen to play that many tests, full stop? I can't think of anyone worse.

 

[Beamer]

Would bringing back shai hope be a good call? He's had that same pattern marsh had in white ball before his test resurgence where he started making runs and scoring quicker. I don't think he's gonna reinvent the wheel, but I reckon if you recall him now you get a few years of runs @35-40 which would be huge for the windies.

I would bring Shai back now tbh. It's not the perfect scenario, with him having failed so spectacularly before, but what do we have to lose? Plus we need some experience in the middle. My ideal scenario would be Shai agreeing to be the keeper batsman coming in at 6 or 7, especially if his knees can hold up.

 

[Beamer]

100%
Test cricket is a hard game & now harder with players or boards not seeming to value it as much because of money. So even the decent players can't get tested enough to grow their games away from test cricket.

As @Nintendo says you end up going to the tried and tested FC player who is knocking down doors.

I know some of the Windies "better' batsman aren't playing test cricket but it's interesting no Trinidadian, Jamaican or Guyananor even Antiguan I guess are in the top 6 but there is 2 Domenican's, a St Kitts & Nevian & a Sint Maarten. I think those are the right terms

The truth is there is no-one in our FC set up who has played a decent amount of FC cricket and averages 40 plus. The closest two are Bajan Kevin Wickham (41 after 14 games) and Guyanese Kevlon Anderson (39 after 14 games). Mikyle Louis averaged 50 before being picked but after only 7 games. There is just no competition.

Cricket in T & T has been run abysmally for some time. They massively prioritise white ball cricket, and even then, they don't give youth a chance. Jamaica has been corrupted into submission; they are useless, have zero development programmes and even when they do have Windies Under 19 prospects like Jordan Johnson, they don't play them.

Dominca, St Lucia and the Windward Islands have had some good development programmes considering their size and their respective governments are bought into the process. So I expect to see more Windward Island players in the future.

Guyana has some good prospects I believe, SSC is better qualified to talk on those. Berbice in particular have strong programmes in place. But it will take years for young batters to be produced.

 

[Beamer]

I thought Markram did ok. Didn’t look fluent, it was a struggle given their game is not suited for these wickets, but he spent a lot of time at the crease and returns were not too bad in challenging conditions.
Bedingham did not have a good series. Chucked their wicket away in Trinidad when set and didn’t seem to respect the Windies. He is the best batsman South Africa has and the importance of that needs to be made clear irrespective of the number of caps he has.

Concern for South Africa going into the Bangladesh series is the top order penchant for playing spin deep in their crease on the backfoot. Kallis and Amla used to do that, but they were special, and it started with an initial movement forward and then back. Markram, Bavuma and Mulder all got done like that in Guyana and Bedingham plays like that as well. Stubbs and Verreynne using their feet and sweeping look far more assured.

Bedingham looked loose outside off stump and Jayden Seales eats those batsmen for breakfast (Zak Crawley, for example, has really struggled against him). I've seen him look tighter, so maybe he was trying to be ultra-aggressive against us. Either way, it didn;t work and he needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Bahseph]

Bedingham looked loose outside off stump and Jayden Seales eats those batsmen for breakfast (Zak Crawley, for example, has really struggled against him). I've seen him look tighter, so maybe he was trying to be ultra-aggressive against us. Either way, it didn;t work and he needs to go back to the drawing board.

Markram I believe has some issues outside off but I think Bedingham could be tighter but seems to go for his shots

 

[Beamer]

It's Bedingham's first bad series right? So we can give him a bit of leeway.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The truth is there is no-one in our FC set up who has played a decent amount of FC cricket and averages 40 plus. The closest two are Bajan Kevin Wickham (41 after 14 games) and Guyanese Kevlon Anderson (39 after 14 games). Mikyle Louis averaged 50 before being picked but after only 7 games. There is just no competition.

Cricket in T & T has been run abysmally for some time. They massively prioritise white ball cricket, and even then, they don't give youth a chance. Jamaica has been corrupted into submission; they are useless, have zero development programmes and even when they do have Windies Under 19 prospects like Jordan Johnson, they don't play them.

Dominca, St Lucia and the Windward Islands have had some good development programmes considering their size and their respective governments are bought into the process. So I expect to see more Windward Island players in the future.

Guyana has some good prospects I believe, SSC is better qualified to talk on those. Berbice in particular have strong programmes in place. But it will take years for young batters to be produced.

Stability is a hallmark of any successful organization. Observing the cricketing structures in the region from the past to the present, it's evident that significant fissures exist within CWI and Windies cricket. Among the four major nations, only Barbados and Guyana seem to maintain their prestige in the red ball format.

Jamaica truly deserves better. The youth are striving to make progress; however, they require solid support.

Trinidad presents a curious case. While the structures and resources are in place, their focus seems to be shifting away from the technical aspects of the game towards short-term strategies.

Guyana stands out as the embodiment of West Indies cricketing excellence. Their approach remains unchanged, particularly in the quality of coaching across Berbice. Notable is Tucber Park's coach Julian Moore, a national youth coach and son of former senior team coach Carl Moore. Clubs like Young Warriors, the home of the Hetmyers, and Albion are among the best. Moreover, the Rose Hall Town Youth and Sports Club is advancing the sport significantly with its grassroots system and emphasis on women's cricket development.

The future success of these initiatives hinges on whether CWI can avoid further internal divisions.

 

[Beamer]

Back on this tour, I'm struggling to think of a white ball series more pointless than this one.

We've played each other loads recently, we won most of the bilateral t20s, SA won the match that mattered most.

Now SA are trying out some youngsters whilst we have basically the world cup squad still in place with Johnson Charles hanging around like a bad smell and no youngsters at all. It will be a hard one to get enthusiastic about.

 

[SeamUp]

Kwena to make his debut. But it has started to rain.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

That's Rickelton's 15th innings in a Proteas shirt across all formats and he's yet to pass 50 , a bit concerning.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Shamar with a first ball wicket. Where have we seen this before?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Shamar 1-0 (0.1)

@ashley bach

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

SA 33-3 in the powerplay

@ashley bach

 

[Bahseph]

These are some of the worst dismissals I've ever seen