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***Official*** South Africa in India

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Decent test for Ashwell Prince at Kanpur, failed at Chennai but that was attributed to the fact that he scores most of his runs when the team needs it but he has disappointed in the subcontinent over the past few months and a couple of failures in the last test may see JP Duminy takes his place in England. Definitely deserves a chance and what with Amla and AB scoring, Prince needs a knock.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I ask you, does Dhoni have any concept of what it means to bat responsibly?
The man confuses me. Sometimes you watch him bat and admire how much he has worked on his game and how responsible he is at the crease, especially in the shorter form ... and then you get these moments where he seems to be trying to counterattack in the wrong situation. He's shown that he's capable of toughing it out too; it just seems like the old temperament comes back to bite him in the ass every once in a while.
 
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adharcric

International Coach
Full article: http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/345157.html

Please, we do not need Murali Kartik - Harbhajan Singh and Anil Kumble are fine as spinners in India and I do not rate him at all. Furthermore, India need to take care of their fast bowlers - rehab at the NCA is a good step, but prevention through fitness work and action modification would be better. VRV Singh touched sublime form in the Duleep Trophy as did Tyagi in the Ranji Trophy and now both are injured!
Just as I was about to mention VRV as an option if Ishant still isn't fit ...
 

adharcric

International Coach
Pathan unbeaten both innings. Our first innings performance was so bad, it's just funny.


As for playing four bowlers vs. five, I'd love to play four bowlers, but I just don't see four bowlers taking 20 wickets. Playing only five batsman is an act of desperation due to the lack of quality in the bowling. Maybe if you had Zaheer, Ishant and Sreesanth or something, you can maybe play one spinner, but playing one spinner at home is not ideal, at all. Unless you want to go Ishant, Zaheer, Kumble, Harbhajan as your bowling attack, I don't see a way to play four bowlers.
Didn't we take 20 wickets in Perth? England? South Africa? If our bowlers bowl like they can and should, four is enough. Zaheer, Ishant, Kumble, Harbhajan - that looks like a good attack to me. Pathan is not going to run through a side and honestly, Sehwag and Ganguly combined are probably as likely to get a breakthrough as he is. The hit you take with Dhoni at 6, Pathan at 7 and a waning Kumble at 8 clearly outweighs the benefits of 5 bowlers. One thing I do agree with - two spinners is a must at home.
 

ret

International Debutant
Well, Tendulkar and Sehwag are regulars so you don't drop Dravid for them.

As for the rest: one of Gambhir, Chopra, Rohit, Badri, Yuvi, Kaif....

vs.

Dravid


Tough decision there......
I do agree that Dravid is still good enough to play for Ind and probably needs to lift his game .... Let's hope that he does well but if he is going to put on low scores at Kanpur then I would rather prefer to look to the future

India losing in India is a serious issue and it over-rides many other things. right now, you can be like ah ha, how can you replace Dravid [10k runs in both forms of cricket] but if Ind loses in Ind and these guys come up with poor scores then some of them could be thrown to the guillotine

iirc, you had once said that you would have Gavaskar in your all-time 20T team [probably in the world X1 team] .... may be you are judging him based on his test record but did you see his ODI record? he once made some 30 odd not out in 60 overs!!! and he was not that successful in ODIs so there is little evidence to show that he would be useful in 20T but you still had him may be based upon his technique .... i would not even have him in my all time ODI side, let alone 20T

now i don't expect you to be forward thinking and even imagine that Dravid can be replaced but thats something that has to be done sooner or later so instead of thinking that it can't be done, i would suggest that you start thinking how it can be done and then probably you will starting seeing a change as an opportunity rather than a threat
 
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adharcric

International Coach
I'd be OK with Kaif too. But FC wise, Badrinath is in a different league, though I think his recent form hasn't been as good as Kaif.
Badrinath should have gotten the call on about five occasions in the past year-and-a-half, but Kaif is the man in form right now. He's made some real quality knocks as well, something he hadn't done much of throughout the earlier parts of his domestic career.
 

ret

International Debutant
on playing 4 or 5 bowlers

I m for flexibility and use of common sense .... If the pitch is sporting or bowler friendly then 4 bowlers .... If it's one where batsmen are expected to make merry then i will accommodate a bowling all-rounder

a couple of years ago, I strictly believed in the 7 batsmen, 4 bowlers theory as I thought that tests are not ODIs where a bowler is restricted to bowing 10 overs. In tests, a bowler can bowl as many overs as he wants and then you have your 4 best bowlers bowling all the time .... since a team usually needs to score 400+ to put pressure on the opposition, you need 7 batsmen as one or two are going to get good balls early on

now, i m for flexibility and believe in having options. the more option a team has the better .... just as not all batsmen are going to have a good game, not all bowlers are going to have a good game, so if the pitch offers little help and if a couple of bowlers have an off day then you are left with only 2 good bowlers. break downs also happen to bowlers, so there is nothing like having a good bowling all-rounder who can give you the options both with the bat and the ball .... if a team has a quality all-rounder and can afford to squeeze him in, i.e. if the batsmen around are not that better than the bowling all-rounder than it should play the bowling-all-rounder

when i read some of the posts here, i feel like this place is 2 yrs behind. Still the talk of 4 bowlers or 5 bowlers rather than being street smart, flexible and determining that based on the conditions .... you can't have theories limit your capabilities

you have to be street smart, if it's a road then you should be like i don't think the opposition can bowl me out twice on this, so I ll play 5 bowlers and see if I can make something out of this game .... if it's bowler friendly, you should be like oh, i think I might need an extra bat as the opposition can bowl me out twice on this and i guess my 4 bowlers will be more than enough on this pitch to unsettle the opposition
 
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Googenheim

U19 12th Man
a nice article .... appears as if the debate is already on in Ind and the guillotine is getting ready for the seniors
There is no debate on in India on those lines. A few stray articles here and there mean zilch. Verbal diarrhoea flowing from lack of a pragmatic thought process is characteristic of these armchair 'journalists'. Slowly phasing in new (as opposed to just young) players is accepted convention in all teams, and painting it as a 'senior vs junior' conundrum all the time is ridiculous.
 

ret

International Debutant
There is no debate on in India on those lines. A few stray articles here and there mean zilch. Verbal diarrhoea flowing from lack of a pragmatic thought process is characteristic of these armchair 'journalists'. Slowly phasing in new (as opposed to just young) players is accepted convention in all teams, and painting it as a 'senior vs junior' conundrum all the time is ridiculous.
so whats the happening on 'phasing in new players' front .... which are the names that are being thrown in?
 

Googenheim

U19 12th Man
so whats the happening on 'phasing in new players' front .... which are the names that are being thrown in?
Badrinath finds next to no mention in the print media, I hope he doesn't end up as Sriram version 2. Kaif has his fair share of advocates, as did Yuvraj who was annointed as the saviour of Indian Test cricket until the Australian tour had those 'journalists' scurrying for cover. Sehwag had his critics before the Australian tour, and he shut them up for good with his 151 and 319. Gambhir and Chopra are definitely in the frame. Praveen Kumar is a decent prospect too. RP Singh's poor performances find no mention in the papers surprisingly. Ganguly is given a lot of leeway in the print media too. I haven't read todays papers, but I'm pretty sure his innings yesterday will be given dispropotionate coverage, ignoring his poor form in the past 3 tests.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Didn't we take 20 wickets in Perth? England? South Africa? If our bowlers bowl like they can and should, four is enough. Zaheer, Ishant, Kumble, Harbhajan - that looks like a good attack to me. Pathan is not going to run through a side and honestly, Sehwag and Ganguly combined are probably as likely to get a breakthrough as he is. The hit you take with Dhoni at 6, Pathan at 7 and a waning Kumble at 8 clearly outweighs the benefits of 5 bowlers. One thing I do agree with - two spinners is a must at home.
Yes, we have taken 20 wickets in the past. That doesn't mean we can do it consistently, especially if two of your best bowlers are out. Zaheer is by far the best bowler in the Indian team right now, and Ishant was the best at Perth, even though he didn't have the wickets to show for it.
 

Unattainableguy

State 12th Man
haha good win for SA. It is funny how one team scores 600 + in one test, and then the next test with a bit of help for bowlers gets bowled out for 76.

India need to hire some top class bowling coach, like Wasim, Waqar or Shoaib now that he is banned. Under Presath, they are not going to get a good bowling attack.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
haha good win for SA. It is funny how one team scores 600 + in one test, and then the next test with a bit of help for bowlers gets bowled out for 76.

India need to hire some top class bowling coach, like Wasim, Waqar or Shoaib now that he is banned. Under Presath, they are not going to get a good bowling attack.
Being a good fast bowler does not tell you anything about being a good bowling coach.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Yes, we have taken 20 wickets in the past. That doesn't mean we can do it consistently, especially if two of your best bowlers are out. Zaheer is by far the best bowler in the Indian team right now, and Ishant was the best at Perth, even though he didn't have the wickets to show for it.
You have a point but if you look at the past few series, different bowlers have stepped up on each occasion but overall, our bowling unit has gotten the job done. Essentially, I think the crew we have right now (Zaheer, Ishant, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Kumble, Harbhajan) are good enough for us to play four bowlers, unless one or more of these guys is completely whack (ie RPS at the moment). Even if we only have three of these guys available, you bring in a fourth who isn't as good and you're still far better off than playing five bowlers and having a 6-7-8 reading Dhoni, Pathan and Kumble. Given that our top order isn't as reliable as Australia's, hell no.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Chopra, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kaif, Dhoni, Kumble, Bhajji, Ishant, Sreesanth

Praveen for Ishant if necessary, otherwise Pathan with reluctance. VRV over both of them if he was actually fit. :dry:
 

adharcric

International Coach
Squad Announced

Wasim Jaffer, Virender Sehwag, Rahul Dravid, Sourav Ganguly, VVS Laxman, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, Mahendra Singh Dhoni (wk), Irfan Pathan, Anil Kumble (capt), Harbhajan Singh, Piyush Chawla, Ramesh Powar, Ishant Sharma, Sreesanth, Munaf Patel

Damn, no Chopra. Besides that, good selection and definitely looks like we might just play 3 spinners on a square turner in Kanpur. Jaffer doesn't really deserve another chance but Pathan is a risky option; that said, if they still want five bowlers, this is the way to go IMO.

Sehwag, Jaffer/Pathan, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kaif, Dhoni, Kumble, Bhajji, Chawla/Sreesanth, Ishant

Chawla for sure and a toss-up between Sreesanth and Powar, if Kumble can't make it.
 
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