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***Official*** South Africa in India

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I'm confused as to why you say a 'less-fit' bowling attack would affect his decision to bat first. Wouldn't it be better to give them as much a rest as possible (I'm sure he expected his batsman to last longer than 1 session :lol: )
Regardless of what one would have expected from our batsmen, I would have wanted to give the bowlers the better conditions for bowling.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Wish I could actually see Badrinath in action (the only chance I ever got to see Indian FC cricket of late was the Ranji final in January).

I'm a huge Kaif fan, so am biased, but after his recent season he's almost a shoo-in to replace Sachin I imagine. Particularly with his int'l experience.
I'd be OK with Kaif too. But FC wise, Badrinath is in a different league, though I think his recent form hasn't been as good as Kaif.
 

ret

International Debutant
Badri / Kaif / Yuvi / Rohit or whoever will add more value to the team than Jaffar

After this humiliating loss, the India team owes it to itself and the fans to come back strongly at Kanpur

I hope selectors bring in Gambhir, who would be looking forward to leveraging his good form in the recent CB series .... thats a better way to judge the form of a player than the stats in domestics, where usually sides are not packed with quality bowlers

and I would play Chawla in the 11 .... he is a wicket-taking option and SA have not played him enough

Draw is not an option for team Ind, the team will have to go all guns blazing to pull off a victory
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Mind you, going in with 5 batsman, I probably would have bowled first too. I just don't think it would have made that much difference, I mean the pitch wouldn't have changed from session 1 day 1 and session 2 day 2, yet it felt like it was different considering how SA bowled and how India bowled.
Point is, the Indian batting wasn't equipped to handle a greentop. I am not saying Indian bowlers were going to bowl SA out. No they wouldn't have. But I have no doubt in mind that India wouldn't have folder for 76.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Great win by South Africa, to take it in three days is some achievement.

They should be fairly confident going into Kanpur. Indians are likely to pressurise for a square turner and that’s probably in honesty the only way they can win a game, considering how poor their seamers have been and how relatively flat Kumble has bowled.

Bit of a moral victory as well when the opposition are under-preparing wickets.

South Africa would have taken a drawn series before the first test so anything from now on is a mere bonus.
 

ret

International Debutant
Bit of a moral victory as well when the opposition are under-preparing wickets.
I would say the wkt at A'bad suited SA bowling

Isn't victory well deserved when the visiting team beats the home team in conditions that suits the home team and India plays on wkts that suits quicks most often than not when it plays in SA, don't they?
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
I would say the wkt at A'bad suited SA bowling

Isn't victory well deserved when the visiting team beats the home team in conditions that suits the home team and India plays on wkts that suits quicks most often than not when it plays in SA, don't they?
It suited the South Africa bowling because they are good bowlers. It wasn't a prototype South African surface by any means; if it was Ganguly would have made no runs (:) ) and conversely a few of the South African batsman would have failed. It was an essentially a good batting track but if you bent your back and were committed there was something there.

Also, a fair number of the Indians gave their wicket away, can’t blame the pitch for the way the Dhoni departed, can you? Or how easy Pathan made batting look?
 

ret

International Debutant
It suited the South Africa bowling because they are good bowlers. It wasn't a prototype South African surface by any means; if it was Ganguly would have made no runs and conversely a few of the South African batsman would have failed. It was an essentially a good batting track but if you bent your back and were committed there was something there.

Also, a fair number of the Indians gave their wicket away, can’t blame the pitch for the way the Dhoni departed, can you? Or how easy Pathan made batting look?
i don't want to give excuses for the Ind loss so congrats to SA .... i agree with you that Ind batsman played badly and SA bowled superbly

But yeah would add that the victory would be well deserved if SA had beaten a full strength Indian side and in conditions that favor Indian spinners

I hope that the curators come out with something that turns square at Kanpur and it would be interesting to see how the SA cope that .... if they win it there then that would be a deserving win
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Its still a 'well deserved' win, whether it was a green top, flat pitch or turner. You're using the wrong terminology.

You can argue that it proved less than if they had done it on a turner, but the fact that they dominated so much has definitely opened up my eyes a bit. I knew SA were good but with their constant trend of almost always losing a test in a series (including to WI) I had my doubts.

If they hold on to this series, that'll be overseas wins in Pak and Ind, very impressive. Now they've just gotta back up this performance.
 

ret

International Debutant
if India loses on a turner at Kanpur then I am going to push for the mass retirement of Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and Kumble, along with Bhajji in tests

Btw, what are the reactions to the Ind loss in the media?
 

ret

International Debutant
Don't think your push will do much :p
yeah, just like your pull :p

If Ind loses on a pitch that can give result then it will be like a last nail on the coffin for them .... and Ind would have lost coz of their bad performances

There is little that a side can do when players with around 100 or more tests don't deliver and we had 4 [Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and Kumble] of them in our 11 in this test, along with Bhajji who looks more like a restrictive bowler who is more suited for the ODIs

And if these guys fail at Kanpur then it would be their 7th batting collapse in 7th tests, along with some uninspiring bowling .... that would give me enough reasons to support some new faces .... and it's better to lose with young faces who are adjusting to the learning curve, have a scope for improvement and some yrs of cricket left in them

If India loses then mostly those who think individuals are bigger than cricket will probably stand up for them
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I don't agree with it, but I can see the merits for dropping Harbhajan (I wouldn't care that much if he were dropped), Ganguly and even Laxman, but Dravid's simply out of form. I don't think he's 'gone' yet, and you just don't drop someone of his calibre until its clear as crystal that he's not one of India's best 6 test batsmen.

I won't even say anything about the ridiculousness of dropping Kumble.
 

ret

International Debutant
I don't agree with it, but I can see the merits for dropping Harbhajan (I wouldn't care that much if he were dropped), Ganguly and even Laxman, but Dravid's simply out of form. I don't think he's 'gone' yet, and you just don't drop someone of his calibre until its clear as crystal that he's not one of India's best 6 test batsmen.

I won't even say anything about the ridiculousness of dropping Kumble.
Agree with you on Dravid, who needs to pick up his game

I don't think Kumble will fail on a turner but if he does then Q will be raised against him as well
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
He was made captain less than 6 months ago, to drop him even if he fails in the 3rd in spin friendly conditions would be ridiculous.

It was a bad test match for India, but let's not overreact yet with ultimatums on players etc.
 

ret

International Debutant
Consistency is the Key

Saturday April 05, 2008

Stunned by India's amazing comeback at Perth after being down 0-2 in the Test series down under, most of us, cricket analysts *** Indian cricket patriots, had made a prediction. We were confident that Anil Kumble's men had it in them to stake a claim to being the world's best. With a captain as fiercely competitive as one can ever aspire to be in cricket, the Indian Test team had a stable look to it. While I still hold on to what I had said and written, I do that with a difference.

While India can, on their day, stun the world's best and give their fans much to cheer about, they still have much to do to replace Australia as the numero uno cricket team in the world. To be the world's best, you need to be consistent. And as Ahmedabad has shown us, India continues to be consistently inconsistent. How can a team that has recently handled Brett Lee at his best and scored a mammoth 600 plus against Dale Steyn and company at Chennai (agreed it was a comatose pitch) get bowled out in 20 overs will continue to baffle us in the days ahead. Leave alone the meager 76 that India scored, getting out in a little more than an hour, in 20 overs, is criminal. It is just the thing a team aspiring to be the world's best cannot afford to do.

While Anil Kumble has reasons to feel upset at not being given a pitch of his choice, while the track did suit the South Africans more than the Indians and while Steyn bowled remarkably well, none of these explain a tale of surrender in 120 balls. Each batsman, going by this statistic, was at the crease for some 12 deliveries, a pathetic display by any stretch of imagination. As I write, India still has her second innings to play. It might well be a classic recovery with most of the leading guns firing to the hilt. However, such a performance will hardly do a thing to convince me that we have achieved the consistency essential to topple Australia.

The question then is: why does the Indian batting order, justifiably one of the best in the business, have these freakish moments of underperformance? Some people have suggested that with the IPL round the corner, the Indians have shifted to T-20 mode. That is, I can add with certainty, one of the most banal of answers. A replay of most of the dismissals and we understand why this explanation holds little water. Rather, it will be useful to suggest that Tendulkar’s absence, which forced Laxman up the batting order is a more plausible explanation for a collapse. However, none of these help explain a 20 over surrender. What they do, however, is once again bring to focus the senior versus junior debate. If juniors can be pulled up for being inconsistent and if that can be an argument to bring back some of the seniors in the 50 over version, a few more Ahmedabad’s can well see some of them sidelined forever. There's little doubt that an unpredictable but talented junior is preferable to an inconsistent, ageing senior.

The battlelines for the seniors have thus been drawn. For their own sake they need to ensure that the first innings at Ahmedabad, well and truly, was an aberration. With T-20 already beyond them, IPL icon status notwithstanding, and with Dhoni’s young turks winning the CB series down under, legends like Laxman, Dravid and Ganguly will soon be playing for survival, a situation alien to them. The next fortnight, second innings at Ahmedabad and then Kanpur, promises to be really exciting. As a matter of fact Indian cricket always is.
a nice article .... appears as if the debate is already on in Ind and the guillotine is getting ready for the seniors
 

ret

International Debutant
Ah, dropping Dravid for Yuvraj Singh - the move of the century. :laugh:
haha, how abt Badri :p

anyways, lots of choices still for Ind

Batting - Sehwag, Gambhir, Chopra, Tendulkar, Rohit, Badri, Yuvi, Kaif, ....
All-rounders - Dhoni, Karthik, Pathan
Bowling - Zak, Isnat, Chawla, Munaf, Kartik, Sreesant, RP, Praveen, ....
Others batsmen / bowlers - Uthappa, Tiwary, Raina

there is no shortage of talent
 
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silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
haha, how abt Badri :p

anyways, lots of choices still for Ind

Batting - Sehwag, Gambhir, Chopra, Tendulkar, Rohit, Badri, Yuvi, Kaif, ....
All-rounders - Dhoni, Karthik, Pathan
Bowling - Zak, Isnat, Chawla, Munaf, Kartik, Sreesant, RP, Praveen, ....
Others batsmen / bowlers - Uthappa, Tiwary, Raina

there is no shortage of talent
Well, Tendulkar and Sehwag are regulars so you don't drop Dravid for them.

As for the rest: one of Gambhir, Chopra, Rohit, Badri, Yuvi, Kaif....

vs.

Dravid


Tough decision there......
 

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