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***Official*** South Africa in India

pasag

RTDAS
Rating him above Kumble was an oversight on my part, but he is among the two best pace bowlers and I would not have been afraid to say that before the series, being somebody who did not rate RP Singh's performance downunder and someone who has not rated Sreesanth's Test bowling since England.

Calling him India's second best pace bowler is barely a compliment and is mostly because, unlike RP Singh and Sreesanth, he has performed well in more than one country.
Yeah, I'd probably agree with that now, but wouldn't have before the series. I don't think there's that much gap between RP, Sree and Sharma at this moment in time though, so losing one won't be such a major blow as opposed to a minor disadvatage.
 

ret

International Debutant
A comprehensive victory to SA .... congrats to SA .... And the pathetic collapses continue for India .... It's difficult to save a game scoring even after a 200 in the first innings, so there was no way, it could have played itself out of this after being dismissed for 76. Yeah, it's difficult to imagine a team getting bowled out for 76 but it's true!!!! The 2nd innings was an example of how much you should get even if you bat badly, i.e. 300. 76 was pathetic

The test at Kanpur becomes a must win game for India. Which means it will have to pick up 20 wkts. It will be interesting to see what squad the selectors come up with.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Rating him above Kumble was an oversight on my part, but he is among the two best pace bowlers and I would not have been afraid to say that before the series, being somebody who did not rate RP Singh's performance downunder and someone who has not rated Sreesanth's Test bowling since England.

Calling him India's second best pace bowler is barely a compliment and is mostly because, unlike RP Singh and Sreesanth, he has performed well in more than one country.
Ishant has performed well in 2 countries?

How do you say that. A 5-fer vs. Pakistan in India with 4 tail end wickets?

I love Ishant, but he's got a lot to prove. An injury to him and Zaheer shouldn't mean India lose by an innings and 90 runs at home.
 
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ret

International Debutant
Dhoni isn't that good at 7 and certainly isn't a 6. Big deal he made a 50 when the match was well and truly over, it means very little. The Indian lower middle order is too much of a liability and needs to be changed ASAP. Goughy is spot on here.
Did you see the Indian squad selected for the game before saying that ^ .... and then whom would you have played form that squad of 15 in the 11?

Below is the squad

Batsman ----> Jaffar, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kaif and Yuvi
All-rounders ----> Dhoni and Pathan
Bowlers ----> Sree, RP, Kumble, Bhajji, Chawla and Murali

If you would have played a batsman in place of Pathan [to make Dhoni bat at 7 so that it looks good on paper :laugh: ] then who would he be and how are you going to justify that especially after Pathan did perform with the bat. He was left stranded in both the innings

Go on and show something that makes sense in the real world
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Okay, here is my review of the Test from India's point of view.

India played poorly throughout the second Test in Ahmedabad. India can take positives from the match though as a freak batting collapse, combined with some agressive fast bowling from South Africa can act as a catalyst for the BCCI to look at aspects of the Test game that had remained hidden amongst series wins against England and Pakistan and a fine showing against Australia.

Wasim Jaffer, for a long time now, has shown himself as somebody who is shady at best on a pitch less than a featherbed. Moreover, he has shown an irefutable weakness outside the off stump - providing nicks to any well pitched up ball within bat-width-range of the off stump. The BCCI have given much faith to the classy opening batsman, but it is clear that his deficiencies on sporting wickets will prove costly in the long term. Far be it from me to say that a single match failure is grounds for dismissal from the Test team; but combined with his awful showing in Australia, his part in the embarrasing 3 Day Defeat can be used as a feasible excuse to remove him from the side. India, more specifically Delhi, have two fine openers in Aakash Chopra and Gautam Gambhir who have both had impressive FC seasons. Both have also proved themselves in difficult conditions, by each smashing hundreds in seperate innings of the low scoring 2007/8 Ranji Trophy Final.

On the other end of the spectrum, Virender Sehwag also failed to impress in the Test match, but he lives in the certainty that after his triple century in Chennai - his spot in the team is safe. However, averaging just 45.64 in won Tests, compared to 71.27 in drawn fixtures - this shows a tendancy to score moreso on flat pitches than result orientated ones. Even more astonishingly, his infamous 309 in Multan in 2004 was the last of his two centuries in winning causes. Although certainly a shoe-in for a spot in the Test side for some time, the selectors should truly look at Sehwag's averages with far more scrutiny, the next time his Test place is under scrutiny - after some poor form on pitches which are less than one hundred percent flat.

Although the double failure of the middle order to convert starts was arguably the main cause of the loss, they have all shown themselves over their careers to be stalwarts all over the world, on green and brown pitches alike. None of the three middle order batsmen have shown nearly enough bad form over the past 12 months for their places to be under scrutiny and I also feel that the batting order that was used was the correct one.

However, the tactic of playing five bowlers was a flawed one. Although Irfan Pathan is an able number seven batsman, Anil Kumble does not have the correct technical prowess to occupy the number eight spot and so India should only look to play five bowlers in the event that they have two batsmen of all-rounder quality. Furthermore, when one of the bowlers - RP Singh, is a total liability in the field and with the ball, you must wonder if his spot would not have been better filled by a Test batsman. I was not as impressed with his showing in Australia as others as he was wayward and benefited from a large amount of swing due to the Kookabura ball and overhead conditions which are both alien to India and home in Australia. With a series average in Australia nearing 40, he did not even perform well in Australia - despite all his praise. India must look for traits such as sustained accuracy before selecting home pace bowlers on a whim.

Irfan Pathan's bowling displayed a lack of penetration and it is due to the BCCI's need to rush him back into the side without completing two sets of coaching. Although such a move was necessary to both win the World T20 and win in Perth - India are paying the price now for cutting short his sessions at the MRF Pace Foundation and with Wasim Akram - as he is not using his front arm (as Dennis Lillee has suggested) nor is he swinging the ball, which was surely Wasim Akram's priority with Pathan. Although the incompletion of sessions was a matter of circumstance, the BCCI should look to pushing Pathan to fix these problems in the early part of what has already been a long career for the young Barodan.

Sreesanth impressed in the Test, displaying heart and determination, but I feel that in his current state, he is not fit to be a long term Test prospect. He lacks the mental stamina to probe on the same spot for over after over, as should be expected of medium pacers like himself and would have to raise his stamina to superhuman levels, if he wishes to become a consistently fast bowler by sprinting in for spell after spell - the run up being his main source of pace. He changes actions far too often and seems adament to not persevere with the outswinger, which is, without a doubt, his best Test delivery.

India have been forced to play the three aforementioned seamers, due to injuries to Ishant Sharma (toe) and Zaheer Khan (ankle). As has been the history of Indian pacers, injuries claim bowlers for far too long and it is largely due to playing pace bowlers with niggles - forcing them into the injury phase. India should take a page from Australia's book when they rested Brett Lee in the CB Series - by resting pace bowlers in ODIs - without needing much of a reason. Closely knit ODIs are the perfect way to agrevate niggles and India should look to avoid this by rotating pacers - the introduction of Praveen Kumar and Piyush Chawla to the ODI setup should aid India to do this. India should also look to prehabilitation, by looking to alter actions which they feel are risky to the users of them. Zaheer Khan's leap to the wicket would always lead him in ankle (or knee/hip) troubles and so Venkatesh Prasad and other BCCI biomechanists should have looked to reduce the intensity of his action or even strap up his ankle on a permanent basis.

India's lack of feasible options has also been apparent due to the low-esteem in which the domestic game is held by selectors. Trundlers such as Joginder Sharma and Rajat Bhatia succeed to take wickets and India must look to improving the state of pitches in the domestic game to aid the faster bowlers who are more feasible at international level - or risk suffering a massive lack of bench strength, as in this tour. If the BCCI continue to refuse to pick bowlers who succeed in the 120kph area, they should look to drastically alter pitches to ensure that the military medium pacers are rendered useless whereas the faster bowlers can extract bounce and venom. Dilip Vengsarkar (head of selectors) was correct in his thinking that India should prepare harder pitches at domestic level in order to do this, whilst continuing to encourage spinners in the process.

Rant Over
 
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Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Ishant has performed well in 2 countries?

How do you say that. A 5-fer vs. Pakistan in India with 4 tail end wickets?
And he has bowled well in domestic level; something which eluded Zaheer Khan, Irfan Pathan and Sreesanth in their early careers. I believe that for a fast bowler whose primary weapon is bounce, it takes a lot of talent to succeed at domestic level and it certainly counts as a success to me. I struggle to think of many bowlers of his pace who have succeeded at domestic level and failed to make an international impact.

I love Ishant, but he's got a lot to prove. An injury to him and Zaheer shouldn't mean India lose by an innings and 90 runs at home.
It shouldn't - the primary reason was poor batting in the first innings; but South Africa amassed a massive total on a relatively helpful pitch - and the post was in reply to someone saying that India were simply missing their best pacer (singular).
 

pasag

RTDAS
Did you see the Indian squad selected for the game before saying that ^ .... and then whom would you have played form that squad of 15 in the 11?

Below is the squad

Batsman ----> Jaffar, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kaif and Yuvi
All-rounders ----> Dhoni and Pathan
Bowlers ----> Sree, RP, Kumble, Bhajji, Chawla and Murali

If you would have played a batsman in place of Pathan [to make Dhoni bat at 7 so that it looks good on paper :laugh: ] then who would he be and how are you going to justify that especially after Pathan did perform with the bat. He was left stranded in both the innings

Go on and show something that makes sense in the real world
'Go on and show something that makes sense in the real world'

'[to make Dhoni bat at 7 so that it looks good on paper :laugh:]'

Both incoherent points that have nothing really to do with what I said. Back to the topic at hand, it's simple really, Dhoni isn't good enough to bat at 6 and it leaves a massive whole in the middle order. The plug you fill up from one extra bowler makes a bigger whole with the truncated batting lineup. It's basic cricket logic really. You can't bat Dhoni at 6, simple as.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I'd probably agree with that now, but wouldn't have before the series. I don't think there's that much gap between RP, Sree and Sharma at this moment in time though, so losing one won't be such a major blow as opposed to a minor disadvatage.
RP Singh has lost a lot of ground in his last two series:
- Border Gavaskar Trophy: 12 wickets at 39.00. Economy = 4.30
- South Africa in India: 0 wickets with economy = 4.43

In fact, against non Bangladeshi opposition, he has 32 wickets at 42.17 - that is pretty piss poor.
 

DaRick

State Vice-Captain
RP Singh has lost a lot of ground in his last two series:
- Border Gavaskar Trophy: 12 wickets at 39.00. Economy = 4.30
- South Africa in India: 0 wickets with economy = 4.43

In fact, against non Bangladeshi opposition, he has 32 wickets at 42.17 - that is pretty piss poor.
I didn't even know that he was that bad.

Still, if India are "the New Australia", as Peter Roebuck has said, then I'd much rather the old Australia at this moment in time. However, if the Indians can come back at Kanpur, well...

BTW, your 'rant' about India's performance was a truly magnificent analysis, IMO. Keep it up. :)
 

ret

International Debutant
Back to the topic at hand, it's simple really, Dhoni isn't good enough to bat at 6 and it leaves a massive whole in the middle order. The plug you fill up from one extra bowler makes a bigger whole with the truncated batting lineup. It's basic cricket logic really. You can't bat Dhoni at 6, simple as.
could you show that with how that would work in the real world with the squad provided above .... and my plug did work for Ind as Pathan did well with the bat

your example comes up somewhat like 'Maybach is better than S class, so ppl should buy Maybach' .... Now the real world Qs would be how much does a Maybach cost vs the S-class and how many ppl have the money to purchase a Maybach over the S-class

stop making a rather general statement, if you have to say that Dhoni is not good enough to bat at 6 then go on and show how would that work, who would you have batted at #6 and then justify dropping Pathan despite his good performance with the bat
 

ret

International Debutant
Okay, here is my review of the Test from India's point of view.

India played poorly throughout the second Test in Ahmedabad. India can take positives from the match though as a freak batting collapse, combined with some agressive fast bowling from South Africa can act as a catalyst for the BCCI to look at aspects of the Test game that had remained hidden amongst series wins against England and Pakistan and a fine showing against Australia.

Wasim Jaffer, for a long time now, has shown himself as somebody who is shady at best on a pitch less than a featherbed. Moreover, he has shown an irefutable weakness outside the off stump - providing nicks to any well pitched up ball within bat-width-range of the off stump. The BCCI have given much faith to the classy opening batsman, but it is clear that his deficiencies on sporting wickets will prove costly in the long term. Far be it from me to say that a single match failure is grounds for dismissal from the Test team; but combined with his awful showing in Australia, his part in the embarrasing 3 Day Defeat can be used as a feasible excuse to remove him from the side. India, more specifically Delhi, have two fine openers in Aakash Chopra and Gautam Gambhir who have both had impressive FC seasons. Both have also proved themselves in difficult conditions, by each smashing hundreds in seperate innings of the low scoring 2007/8 Ranji Trophy Final.

On the other end of the spectrum, Virender Sehwag also failed to impress in the Test match, but he lives in the certainty that after his triple century in Chennai - his spot in the team is safe. However, averaging just 45.64 in won Tests, compared to 71.27 in drawn fixtures - this shows a tendancy to score moreso on flat pitches than result orientated ones. Even more astonishingly, his infamous 309 in Multan in 2004 was the last of his two centuries in winning causes. Although certainly a shoe-in for a spot in the Test side for some time, the selectors should truly look at Sehwag's averages with far more scrutiny, the next time his Test place is under scrutiny - after some poor form on pitches which are less than one hundred percent flat.

Although the double failure of the middle order to convert starts was arguably the main cause of the loss, they have all shown themselves over their careers to be stalwarts all over the world, on green and brown pitches alike. None of the three middle order batsmen have shown nearly enough bad form over the past 12 months for their places to be under scrutiny and I also feel that the batting order that was used was the correct one.

However, the tactic of playing five bowlers was a flawed one. Although Irfan Pathan is an able number seven batsman, Anil Kumble does not have the correct technical prowess to occupy the number eight spot and so India should only look to play five bowlers in the event that they have two batsmen of all-rounder quality. Furthermore, when one of the bowlers - RP Singh, is a total liability in the field and with the ball, you must wonder if his spot would not have been better filled by a Test batsman. I was not as impressed with his showing in Australia as others as he was wayward and benefited from a large amount of swing due to the Kookabura ball and overhead conditions which are both alien to India and home in Australia. With a series average in Australia nearing 40, he did not even perform well in Australia - despite all his praise. India must look for traits such as sustained accuracy before selecting home pace bowlers on a whim.

Irfan Pathan's bowling displayed a lack of penetration and it is due to the BCCI's need to rush him back into the side without completing two sets of coaching. Although such a move was necessary to both win the World T20 and win in Perth - India are paying the price now for cutting short his sessions at the MRF Pace Foundation and with Wasim Akram - as he is not using his front arm (as Dennis Lillee has suggested) nor is he swinging the ball, which was surely Wasim Akram's priority with Pathan. Although the incompletion of sessions was a matter of circumstance, the BCCI should look to pushing Pathan to fix these problems in the early part of what has already been a long career for the young Barodan.

Sreesanth impressed in the Test, displaying heart and determination, but I feel that in his current state, he is not fit to be a long term Test prospect. He lacks the mental stamina to probe on the same spot for over after over, as should be expected of medium pacers like himself and would have to raise his stamina to superhuman levels, if he wishes to become a consistently fast bowler by sprinting in for spell after spell - the run up being his main source of pace. He changes actions far too often and seems adament to not persevere with the outswinger, which is, without a doubt, his best Test delivery.

India have been forced to play the three aforementioned seamers, due to injuries to Ishant Sharma (toe) and Zaheer Khan (ankle). As has been the history of Indian pacers, injuries claim bowlers for far too long and it is largely due to playing pace bowlers with niggles - forcing them into the injury phase. India should take a page from Australia's book when they rested Brett Lee in the CB Series - by resting pace bowlers in ODIs - without needing much of a reason. Closely knit ODIs are the perfect way to agrevate niggles and India should look to avoid this by rotating pacers - the introduction of Praveen Kumar and Piyush Chawla to the ODI setup should aid India to do this. India should also look to prehabilitation, by looking to alter actions which they feel are risky to the users of them. Zaheer Khan's leap to the wicket would always lead him in ankle (or knee/hip) troubles and so Venkatesh Prasad and other BCCI biomechanists should have looked to reduce the intensity of his action or even strap up his ankle on a permanent basis.

India's lack of feasible options has also been apparent due to the low-esteem in which the domestic game is held by selectors. Trundlers such as Joginder Sharma and Rajat Bhatia succeed to take wickets and India must look to improving the state of pitches in the domestic game to aid the faster bowlers who are more feasible at international level - or risk suffering a massive lack of bench strength, as in this tour. If the BCCI continue to refuse to pick bowlers who succeed in the 120kph area, they should look to drastically alter pitches to ensure that the military medium pacers are rendered useless whereas the faster bowlers can extract bounce and venom. Dilip Vengsarkar (head of selectors) was correct in his thinking that India should prepare harder pitches at domestic level in order to do this, whilst continuing to encourage spinners in the process.

Rant Over
a huge rant :laugh:

But It can be summed up in a sentence, from batting perspective, everyone is bad except Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly, when it has been them, along with Jaffar, who have been the common denominator in all the recent Indian collapses :p
 

pasag

RTDAS
could you show that with how that would work in the real world with the squad provided above .... and my plug did work for Ind as Pathan did well with the bat

your example comes up somewhat like 'Maybach is better than S class, so ppl should buy Maybach' .... Now the real world Qs would be how much does a Maybach cost vs the S-class and how many ppl have the money to purchase a Maybach over the S-class

stop making a rather general statement, if you have to say that Dhoni is not good enough to bat at 6 then go on and show how would that work, who would you have batted at #6 and then justify dropping Pathan despite his good performance with the bat
Four bowlers, what I've been advocating all along. Pre-match, I would have played Pathan, I like him at 8, but I wouldn't have taken two spinners, it's just not necessary. And honestly, I would probably have had Karthik at seven replacing Dhoni. I don't know why he has been so summarily dropped. And I would have Kaif or Badrinath at six replacing Tendulkar. A batsman for a batsman. It's not rocket science.

The XI structure of the first Test was fine, by mucking about India have caused more problems then they have attempted to solve.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Oh no, I missed out Dhoni in my rant...

He batted okay, but needs more discipline, should be batting seven - still has quite a long leesh left of bad form before his place should come under scrutiny because he is a good keeper and still chips in with useful runs such as todays fifty.
 

ret

International Debutant
Four bowlers, what I've been advocating all along. Pre-match, I would have played Pathan, I like him at 8, but I wouldn't have taken two spinners, it's just not necessary. And honestly, I would probably have had Karthik at seven replacing Dhoni. I don't know why he has been so summarily dropped. And I would have Kaif or Badrinath at six replacing Tendulkar. A batsman for a batsman. It's not rocket science.

The XI structure of the first Test was fine, by mucking about India have caused more problems then they have attempted to solve.
ah ha, so you are saying that pre-match, you would not have played 2 spinners at A'bad as if you knew it was going to be a green-top
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Pathan unbeaten both innings. Our first innings performance was so bad, it's just funny.


As for playing four bowlers vs. five, I'd love to play four bowlers, but I just don't see four bowlers taking 20 wickets. Playing only five batsman is an act of desperation due to the lack of quality in the bowling. Maybe if you had Zaheer, Ishant and Sreesanth or something, you can maybe play one spinner, but playing one spinner at home is not ideal, at all. Unless you want to go Ishant, Zaheer, Kumble, Harbhajan as your bowling attack, I don't see a way to play four bowlers.
 
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ret

International Debutant
the next test begins on Apr 11, so the battle is not over yet .... there is still a chance for India to pull one back .... this loss would have been demoralizing but just like a general does in war, Kumble will have to motivate the players to deliver their best in the next test

the chances of the track at Kanpur being a turner would be higher after this loss .... it would be dumb on the part of that local board to come up with anything else

The squad for the last game is not announced, so why not take a shot at the playing X1 for the next game?
 

ret

International Debutant
A splitting of five-dimensional spacetime into the Einstein equations and Maxwell equations in four dimensions was first discovered by Gunnar Nordström in 1914, in the context of his theory of gravity, but subsequently forgotten. In 1926, Oskar Klein proposed that the fourth spatial dimension is curled up in a circle of very small radius, so that a particle moving a short distance along that axis would return to where it began. The distance a particle can travel before reaching its initial position is said to be the size of the dimension. This extra dimension is a compact set, and the phenomenon of having a space-time with compact dimensions is referred to as compactification.

In modern geometry, the extra fifth dimension can be understood to be the circle group U(1), as electromagnetism can essentially be formulated as a gauge theory on a fiber bundle, the circle bundle, with gauge group U(1). Once this geometrical interpretation is understood, it is relatively straightforward to replace U(1) by a general Lie group. Such generalizations are often called Yang–Mills theories. If a distinction is drawn, then it is that Yang–Mills theories occur on a flat space-time, whereas Kaluza–Klein treats the more general case of curved spacetime. The base space of Kaluza–Klein theory need not be four-dimensional space-time; it can be any (pseudo-)Riemannian manifold, or even a supersymmetric manifold or orbifold or even a noncommutative space.

As an approach to the unification of the forces, it is straightforward to apply the Kaluza-Klein theory in an attempt to unify gravity with the strong and electroweak forces by using the symmetry group of the Standard Model, SU(3) × SU(2) × U(1). However, an attempt to convert this interesting geometrical construction into a bona-fide model of reality founders on a number of issues, including the fact that the fermions must be introduced in an artificial way (in nonsupersymmetric models). A less problematic approach to the unification of the forces is taken by modern string theory and M-theory. Nonetheless, KK remains an important touchstone in theoretical physics and is often embedded in more sophisticated theories. It is studied in its own right as an object of geometric interest in K-theory.

Even in the absence of a completely satisfying theoretical physics framework, the idea of exploring extra, compactified, dimensions is of considerable interest in the experimental physics and astrophysics communities. A variety of predictions, with real experimental consequences, can be made (in the case of large extra dimensions/warped models). For example, on the simplest of principles, one might expect to have standing waves in the extra compactified dimension(s). If an extra dimension is of radius R, the energy of such a standing wave would be E = nhc / R with n an integer, h being Planck's constant and c the speed of light. This set of possible energy values is often called the Kaluza–Klein tower.

Examples of experimental pursuits include work by the CDF collaboration, which has re-analyzed particle collider data for the signature of effects associated with large extra dimensions/warped models.

Brandenberger and Vafa have speculated that in the early universe, cosmic inflation causes three of the space dimensions to expand to cosmological size while the remaining dimensions of space remained microscopic.

So far no evidence has been found to support the existence of extra dimensions yet the idea remains popular among theoretical scientists. The LHC is hoped to provide evidence for the existence of extra dimensions.
thats like the essays you get on the verbal section in GMAT

reading that reminded of that and the fact that i was dumb enough to not pursue my MBA after being accepted to one of the best MBA schools in the world
 

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