**Official** South Africa in India Thread

[Sanz]

And Lax is out made 9 in 26 balls(Kumble made 9 in 13), WTF is going on here ? Zaheer if you are reading this, Please dont waste any more balls, Hit couple of big sixes and get your a$$ out. You have to bowl whole day.

 

[Sanz]

So Bhajji tops Lax by scoring 10 runs in 34 . This is the most boring test I have watched since SL 900 test Where Sanath made 300 score.

131.3 Peterson to Harbhajan Singh, no run, fuller and on the stumps,
defended with a straight bat
131.2 Peterson to Harbhajan Singh, no run, tossed up on the middle and
leg, defended stretching forward

why the torture !! Get out and get some rest for second test match guys.

 

[Arjun]

The Indians should consider Gagandeep Singh as an option for the next Test, as well as that silly series that folllows it. He's in very good form with the new ball, in helpful conditions.

 

[Deja moo]

^ You are never satisfied unless there are atleast 3 changes to the team every test .

 

[Arjun]

^ You are never satisfied unless there are atleast 3 changes to the team every test .

They NEVER change the Indian team for YEARS, do they? Even the weak links? And do you think three spinners and one seamer should be a regular bowling plan?

Besides, the next tour is just a holiday! Rather than give has-beens a chance to show how good they are when it doesn't matter, they can give these FC heroes a chance to show their wares.

 

[Arjun]

Gagandeep Singh- 134 wickets in 33 matches, bowling average of 20, 5 wickets an innings 11 times. He's the man in form. Save that change, and maybe sneak in Kaif, the rest of the team is fine. But THE WAY THEY PLAY has to change.

 

[Deja moo]

They NEVER change the Indian team for YEARS, do they? Even the weak links?

Correct me if Iam wrong , but IMO with the exception of the middle order , the Indian team has seen more changes over the last 10 years than any other team . I dont think any other country has given more test caps to new players in this period .

And do you think three spinners and one seamer should be a regular bowling plan?

If the Kanpur pitch is representative of the kind of surfaces we are going to have this season, it doesnt matter what combination we bring to the center .

 

[masterblaster]

Gagandeep Singh- 134 wickets in 33 matches, bowling average of 20, 5 wickets an innings 11 times. He's the man in form. Save that change, and maybe sneak in Kaif, the rest of the team is fine. But THE WAY THEY PLAY has to change.

He maybe decent, but Ranji and International Cricket are different in so many ways. Lakshmipathy Balaji was on fire in Ranji Trophy Cricket, which led to his call up for India, and despite looking good in patches, he hasn't impressed much at all.

India will never really be conducive to good fast bowlers, perhaps good swing bowlers, but never good fast bowlers, as the conditions will never really change and never really help the faster bowlers.

If Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar fail continously, then there's no real problem in trying Gagandeep Singh, after all India have tried practically every fast bowler under the sun until now, so another one wont hurt as much.

But I'm wary of any 'decent' fast bowling prospect coming out of India, because it never seems to materialise for one reason or another.

 

[nikhil1772]

Yeah why not,u can try him,but Indian selectors dont really pick the players in form all the time,do they?Each of the selectors from the 5 zones in India should agree,and while that happens maybe Gagandeep will retire from domestic cricket wondering if he should have played in another country,or for another state.
Maybe I'm exaggerating,but the whole truth is that there's too much money in Indian Cricket which implies great politics and partiality in the game which can share the blame for Indian Cricket Team's pathetic performances

 

[Arjun]

He maybe decent, but Ranji and International Cricket are different in so many ways. Lakshmipathy Balaji was on fire in Ranji Trophy Cricket, which led to his call up for India, and despite looking good in patches, he hasn't impressed much at all.

He is in form right now. He's taking wickets in bucketfuls, so on form, he can make an Indian team. None of the other pace bowlers have done much to stay in the team.

Balaji bowls short, effective in Indian pitches, with low bounce. With more bounce, at his medium-pace, he's hittable. Not to mention he runs in diagonally- there are very few chances of bowled/LBW dismissals that way, and more wides. On the other hand, Salvi, Pathan and Bhandari have done well in England and Sri Lanka, where the conditions suit the seamers, so they are better choices than this lot.

India will never really be conducive to good fast bowlers, perhaps good swing bowlers, but never good fast bowlers, as the conditions will never really change and never really help the faster bowlers.

The weather in North India is conducive for pace bowling, though the pitches are a little slow. We now see a few green-tops there. However, the bowlers worry too much about the pitches, and need to change their technique if they have to be effective in international cricket. Not to mention, a lot of fast bowlers or opening bowlers are short. That's why they lack pace and bounce, and don't last long. The typical Barbadian muscles are missing in Indian fast bowlers, at least those picked so far. Worse, even in these Seedster Search/Race for Pace events, the maximum speed is 135, and the average top speed is in the 120's. This is worrying. Coaches are at fault here.

If Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar fail continously, then there's no real problem in trying Gagandeep Singh, after all India have tried practically every fast bowler under the sun until now, so another one wont hurt as much.

But I'm wary of any 'decent' fast bowling prospect coming out of India, because it never seems to materialise for one reason or another.

Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar have failed continuously. That's why they average in the 40's, and lack 5-wicket hauls. Compare their figures with those of Kumble and Harbhajan, and that's reason enough why they're not worth persisting with. Even Pathan has been far short of expectations- his average is in the 40's and after taking an early wicket or two, he doesn't take any more. Boycott flatly said- "They can't win Test matches for India!"

That is why they need to explore other options. The way Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar bowl won't get them much wickets either. All three bowl too many short and wide deliveries, and don't get six balls on the spot. Nehra runs in diagonally, which weakens his penetration. The selectors need to look at who pitch six balls in good areas for at least 20 overs, or who can bowl at serious pace and make good use of it, and who can use swinging conditions to good effect, and also pacers who can bat. More importantly, they need a long run in the Indian side. We see new fast bowlers picked for a match. They turn out to be rather average, so they get dropped and one of those proven failures is back. This has to stop.

 

[honestbharani]

I guess there is no harm in trying new guys against Bangladesh but then again, how much credence can we attach to their performances against Bangladesh?

 

[SJS]

They NEVER change the Indian team for YEARS, do they? .

Really. And whats the basis of your saying this ?

 

[DocHead]

So, first Gangs, Tendulkar (the 2 Restauranters on the team) Laxman and Dravid all explained to us that they lost the one-day games because they had too long a layoff. Same guys who complained about too much cricket previously. Then they said, well, Australia would bring out the best in us and Test Cricket is different. Then they complained about injuries and pitches. Then they said they would take SA easily and they wanted to guard against complacency.

Send all these morons home - they are more interested in endorsments, restaurants and dating film stars than they are in playing cricket. Sack 'em all, I say. The passionate Indian fans deserve better application

Yes please! Sack them all! Gee, what a morale boost it'd be for SA to have those four out of the team! I call for their immediate dropping.

 

[masterblaster]

He is in form right now. He's taking wickets in bucketfuls, so on form, he can make an Indian team. None of the other pace bowlers have done much to stay in the team.

Balaji bowls short, effective in Indian pitches, with low bounce. With more bounce, at his medium-pace, he's hittable. Not to mention he runs in diagonally- there are very few chances of bowled/LBW dismissals that way, and more wides. On the other hand, Salvi, Pathan and Bhandari have done well in England and Sri Lanka, where the conditions suit the seamers, so they are better choices than this lot.The weather in North India is conducive for pace bowling, though the pitches are a little slow. We now see a few green-tops there. However, the bowlers worry too much about the pitches, and need to change their technique if they have to be effective in international cricket. Not to mention, a lot of fast bowlers or opening bowlers are short. That's why they lack pace and bounce, and don't last long. The typical Barbadian muscles are missing in Indian fast bowlers, at least those picked so far. Worse, even in these Seedster Search/Race for Pace events, the maximum speed is 135, and the average top speed is in the 120's. This is worrying. Coaches are at fault here.Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar have failed continuously. That's why they average in the 40's, and lack 5-wicket hauls. Compare their figures with those of Kumble and Harbhajan, and that's reason enough why they're not worth persisting with. Even Pathan has been far short of expectations- his average is in the 40's and after taking an early wicket or two, he doesn't take any more. Boycott flatly said- "They can't win Test matches for India!"

That is why they need to explore other options. The way Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar bowl won't get them much wickets either. All three bowl too many short and wide deliveries, and don't get six balls on the spot. Nehra runs in diagonally, which weakens his penetration. The selectors need to look at who pitch six balls in good areas for at least 20 overs, or who can bowl at serious pace and make good use of it, and who can use swinging conditions to good effect, and also pacers who can bat. More importantly, they need a long run in the Indian side. We see new fast bowlers picked for a match. They turn out to be rather average, so they get dropped and one of those proven failures is back. This has to stop.

But what makes you so sure Gagandeep Singh wont be in the same category as Nehra, Agarkar and Zaheer?

If you remember correctly (seeing as you're from Mumbai, I'm sure you will) Ajit Agarkar averaged 22 or 23 for Mumbai in FC Cricket and around 21 in List A OD Cricket for Mumbai in his first few seasons around 1996/97.

Ajit Agarkar then picked up the fastest 50 wickets in ODI history at an average of 23 with a SR of 27, in just 23 appearences for India which is truely an unbelievable statistic for an Indian fast bowler.

Similar story with Venkatesh Prasad and Zaheer Khan, but look where they are now.

If I remember correctly, Ashish Nehra also averaged 21 with the ball and had averaged 17 infact in Ranji Trophy Cricket in 2000/2001 before earning a call up with the Indian squad to tour Zimbabwe. After all this time, look where he is now?

My main point is, we've heard this story of so called 'brilliant' young fast bowlers in Ranji Trophy Cricket before, but it has never ever materialised.

This is why i'm extremely wary of Gagandeep Singh. He maybe a great prospect, you could try him out, but I wont lobby for his inclusion because until he plays International Cricket for a solid season and gets results, he will be nothing more than another Agarkar or another Nehra.

 

[Adamc]

Correct me if Iam wrong , but IMO with the exception of the middle order , the Indian team has seen more changes over the last 10 years than any other team . I dont think any other country has given more test caps to new players in this period .

Not quite, only fourth in fact - makes for interesting reading...

Debuts since '94:

Australia - 31
Bangladesh - 39 (only started in 2000)
England - 60
India - 50
New Zealand - 39
Pakistan - 51
South Africa - 35
Sri Lanka - 39
West Indies - 52
Zimbabwe - 44

 

[Langeveldt]

On the whole, Im satisfied with the Proteas performance.. If somebody would have handed me a stale defensive draw with such a weak team in India, I would have taken it.. Pleased for Zan de Bruyn who looks like he has a bit about him, Thami kept well by the looks of things and even Robbie P took a wicket!!

Van Jaarsveld and Rudolph could do with some runs though..

 

[Langeveldt]

Why haven't Smith or Rudolph bowled at all?

Because they are naff

 

[Neil Pickup]

Here's the names, * denotes someone who never made it as a regular pick at any sustained point (feel free to dispute my memory, especially when it comes to India)

ENGLAND

 566   SJ Rhodes              v New Zealand       Nottingham           1994
 567   C White                v New Zealand       Nottingham           1994
 568   D Gough                v New Zealand       Manchester           1994
 569   JP Crawley             v South Africa      Lord's               1994
*570   JE Benjamin            v South Africa      The Oval             1994
* 571   PJ Martin              v West Indies       Leeds                1995
 572   DG Cork                v West Indies       Lord's               1995
*573   JER Gallian            v West Indies       Birmingham           1995
 574   NV Knight              v West Indies       Manchester           1995
*575   M Watkinson            v West Indies       Manchester           1995
*576   AP Wells               v West Indies       The Oval             1995
 577   RC Irani               v India             Birmingham           1996
 578   AD Mullally            v India             Birmingham           1996
*579   MM Patel               v India             Birmingham           1996
 580   MA Ealham              v India             Nottingham           1996
*581   SJE Brown              v Pakistan          Lord's               1996
 582   RDB Croft              v Pakistan          The Oval             1996
 583   CEW Silverwood         v Zimbabwe          Bulawayo             1996/97
 584   MA Butcher             v Australia         Birmingham           1997
 585   DW Headley             v Australia         Manchester           1997
*586   AM Smith               v Australia         Leeds                1997
 587   AJ Hollioake           v Australia         Nottingham           1997
*588   BC Hollioake           v Australia         Nottingham           1997
*589   SP James               v South Africa      Lord's               1998
 590   AF Giles               v South Africa      Manchester           1998
 591   A Flintoff             v South Africa      Nottingham           1998
 592   AJ Tudor               v Australia         Perth                1998/99
*593   WK Hegg                v Australia         Melbourne            1998/99
*594   A Habib                v New Zealand       Birmingham           1999
 595   CMW Read               v New Zealand       Birmingham           1999
*596   ESH Giddins            v New Zealand       The Oval             1999
*597   DL Maddy               v New Zealand       The Oval             1999
*598   CJ Adams               v South Africa      Johannesburg         1999/00
*599   GM Hamilton            v South Africa      Johannesburg         1999/00
 600   MP Vaughan             v South Africa      Johannesburg         1999/00
*601   CP Schofield           v Zimbabwe          Lord's               2000
 602   MJ Hoggard             v West Indies       Lord's               2000
 603   ME Trescothick         v West Indies       Manchester           2000
*604   RJ Sidebottom          v Pakistan          Lord's               2001
*605   IJ Ward                v Pakistan          Lord's               2001
*606   U Afzaal               v Australia         Birmingham           2001
*607   J Ormond               v Australia         The Oval             2001
*608   RKJ Dawson             v India             Chandigarh           2001/02
*609   JS Foster              v India             Chandigarh           2001/02
 610   SP Jones               v India             Lord's               2002
 611   SJ Harmison            v India             Nottingham           2002
 612   RWT Key                v India             Nottingham           2002
 613   JM Anderson            v Zimbabwe          Lord's               2003
*614   A McGrath              v Zimbabwe          Lord's               2003
*615   RL Johnson             v Zimbabwe          Chester-le-Street    2003
*616   RJ Kirtley             v South Africa      Nottingham           2003
*617   ET Smith               v South Africa      Nottingham           2003
*618   Kabir Ali              v South Africa      Leeds                2003
*619   GJ Batty               v Bangladesh        Dhaka                2003/04
*620   R Clarke               v Bangladesh        Dhaka                2003/04
*621   MJ Saggers             v Bangladesh        Chittagong           2003/04
*622   PD Collingwood         v Sri Lanka         Galle                2003/04
 623   GO Jones               v West Indies       St John's            2003/04
 624   AJ Strauss             v New Zealand       Lord's               2004
*625   IR Bell                v West Indies       The Oval             2004

INDIA

 201   AR Kapoor              v West Indies       Chandigarh           1994/95
 202   SB Joshi               v England           Birmingham           1996
*203   PL Mhambrey            v England           Birmingham           1996
 204   BKV Prasad             v England           Birmingham           1996
*205   V Rathour              v England           Birmingham           1996
 206   R Dravid               v England           Lord's               1996
 207   SC Ganguly             v England           Lord's               1996
*208   DJ Johnson             v Australia         Delhi                1996/97
 209   VVS Laxman             v South Africa      Ahmedabad            1996/97
*210   D Ganesh               v South Africa      Cape Town            1996/97
*211   A Kuruvilla            v West Indies       Kingston             1996/97
*212   NM Kulkarni            v Sri Lanka         Colombo (RPS)        1997
*213   DS Mohanty             v Sri Lanka         Colombo (SSC)        1997
*214   Harvinder Singh        v Australia         Chennai              1997/98
 215   Harbhajan Singh        v Australia         Bangalore            1997/98
 216   AB Agarkar             v Zimbabwe          Harare               1998/99
*217   RR Singh               v Zimbabwe          Harare               1998/99
*218   R Singh                v New Zealand       Hamilton             1998/99
*219   S Ramesh               v Pakistan          Chennai              1998/99
 220   A Nehra                v Sri Lanka         Colombo (SSC)        1998/99
*221   DJ Gandhi              v New Zealand       Chandigarh           1999/00
*222   MSK Prasad             v New Zealand       Chandigarh           1999/00
*223   R Vijay Bharadwaj      v New Zealand       Chandigarh           1999/00
*224   HH Kanitkar            v Australia         Melbourne            1999/00
*225   W Jaffer               v South Africa      Mumbai               1999/00
*226   M Kartik               v South Africa      Mumbai               1999/00
*227   N Chopra               v South Africa      Bangalore            1999/00
*228   M Kaif                 v South Africa      Bangalore            1999/00
*229   SS Das                 v Bangladesh        Dhaka                2000/01
*230   SS Karim               v Bangladesh        Dhaka                2000/01
 231   Z Khan                 v Bangladesh        Dhaka                2000/01
*232   V Dahiya               v Zimbabwe          Delhi                2000/01
*233   Sarandeep Singh        v Zimbabwe          Nagpur               2000/01
*234   RL Sanghvi             v Australia         Mumbai               2000/01
*235   SV Bahutule            v Australia         Chennai              2000/01
*236   SS Dighe               v Australia         Chennai              2000/01
*237   HK Badani              v Zimbabwe          Harare               2001
*238   D Dasgupta             v South Africa      Bloemfontein         2001/02
 239   V Sehwag               v South Africa      Bloemfontein         2001/02
 240   SB Bangar              v England           Chandigarh           2001/02
*241   IR Siddiqui            v England           Chandigarh           2001/02
*242   T Yohannan             v England           Chandigarh           2001/02
 243   A Ratra                v West Indies       Port of Spain        2001/02
 244   PA Patel               v England           Nottingham           2002
 245   L Balaji               v New Zealand       Ahmedabad            2003/04
*246   A Chopra               v New Zealand       Ahmedabad            2003/04
 247   Yuvraj Singh           v New Zealand       Chandigarh           2003/04
 248   IK Pathan              v Australia         Adelaide             2003/04
 249   G Gambhir              v Australia         Mumbai               2004/05
 250   KKD Karthik            v Australia         Mumbai               2004/05

Conclusion... Indian new caps get a shorter run?

 

[DocHead]

Because they are naff

Smith's pretty naff.

Rudolf had a side sprain in a SS match just before the tour, they said he's fine for batting, but bowling would aggrevate it. Also, he's naff.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Smith's pretty naff.

Rudolf had a side sprain in a SS match just before the tour, they said he's fine for batting, but bowling would aggrevate it. Also, he's naff.

So are most part-timers, but they should still bowl the odd over just to see if they're in inspired bowling form, especially when SA main bowlers were getting nowhere fast. Still it'll make it easier for England to repeatedly put 100 past each of the four main SA bowlers in a month or so.