***Official*** South Africa in England

[Burgey]

Yeah tbh Steyn has been disappointing thus far this series. Lee from what I have seen off him over the last year or so has been comfortably the best fast bowler in the world.

Aye, it will be interesting to see if he can produce that form in England, where he's done virtually sweet FA in the past apart from a good C & B at Lord's in 05.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Miller wants explanation from Vaughan

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/content/current/story/362214.html


Sounds like Vaughan wants an explanation too. That team selection was bad on so many levels.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Aye, it will be interesting to see if he can produce that form in England, where he's done virtually sweet FA in the past apart from a good C & B at Lord's in 05.

Disagree slightly. He dragged you blokes back into the 4th test at Edgbaston too. We were cruising at 100-odd for 4 and he knocked over Fred & KP in quick succession to make it a decidedly sphincter-loosening conclusion. He was expensive on that tour, but bowled with genuine pace & hostility at times too.

 

[Top_Cat]

Disagree slightly. He dragged you blokes back into the 4th test at Edgbaston too. We were cruising at 100-odd for 4 and he knocked over Fred & KP in quick succession to make it a decidedly sphincter-loosening conclusion. He was expensive on that tour, but bowled with genuine pace & hostility at times too.

Yep, Lee was a mix of great bowling and total crap on that tour. Considering it was his first tour after 18 months on the sidelines, that he bowled well even in patches was a surprise and probably led, in no small way, to the bowler we see today.

 

[aussie]

Yeah tbh Steyn has been disappointing thus far this series. Lee from what I have seen off him over the last year or so has been comfortably the best fast bowler in the world.

Not really. Lee=Steyn for the last year. Its never easy for anyone on your first tour of England in the disciplines of batting, bowling & keeping the adjustment factor at times can take a while to get used to. Don't think Steyn has bowled too badly tbh won't be surprised if he takes a big haul before the series is out.

 

[GIMH]

Disagree slightly. He dragged you blokes back into the 4th test at Edgbaston too. We were cruising at 100-odd for 4 and he knocked over Fred & KP in quick succession to make it a decidedly sphincter-loosening conclusion. He was expensive on that tour, but bowled with genuine pace & hostility at times too.

Trent Bridge but yeah. The ball that got Freddie was awesome.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Not really. Lee=Steyn for the last year.

Nope, Lee's bowled better than Steyn over the past year.

 

[aussie]

Nah pretty equal for me, plus Steyn has had to bowl in the sub-continent.

 

[Jono]

Whereas Lee's had minefields in Aus?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Since the start of 2007, 75% of Lee's Test wickets have been top-7 batsmen. Steyn's number is 65%. Of course these stats aren't the end-all of the discussion, but having watched a lot of both of them, I assure you that Lee has been a lot more consistent than Steyn. Steyn has been very poor on occasion over the past year, then cashed in with late wickets. Lee has almost never been poor over the past year.

Worth noting that Lee has also taken more wickets per match without the benefit of 14 wickets in 2 Tests against Bangladesh.

 

[aussie]

Whereas Lee's had minefields in Aus?

By stating that Steyn had to bowl in PAK & IND over the past 6 months doesn't mean i am under-rating Lee bowling one bit. Steyn having to bowl in these countries just shows that he had the tougher conditions to bowl in recent times, places where Lee has yet to conquer (even if i believe he has to tools now to do it).

 

[aussie]

Since the start of 2007, 75% of Lee's Test wickets have been top-7 batsmen. Steyn's number is 65%. Of course these stats aren't the end-all of the discussion, but having watched a lot of both of them, I assure you that Lee has been a lot more consistent than Steyn. Steyn has been very poor on occasion over the past year, then cashed in with late wickets. Lee has almost never been poor over the past year.

Worth noting that Lee has also taken more wickets per match without the benefit of 14 wickets in 2 Tests against Bangladesh.

Well i am judging basically from Steyn in PAK & Lee @ home vs SRI. Don't remember any genuinely poor spells from Steyn in this time, i wouldn't consider the attack Gayle put on him in the P.E a poor effort, nor would i consider the fact that he took 4 late wickets vs IND in Chennai a clean up act after poor bowling that was just brilliant Sehwag on a extremely flat deck that even Lee may would have been hard pressed to have bettered.

Lets put his this way if they where to swap roles & play in the conditions each has had to play in recent times i don't think their performances would have fairly comparable.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Don't remember any genuinely poor spells from Steyn in this time, i wouldn't consider the attack Gayle put on him in the P.E a poor effort

Haha. That's generous. Steyn was poor often in that series against West Indies. Not just against Gayle. Yes, he mixed in some excellent spells, but he's plainly been poor more often than Lee has. That much is obvious.

Lee is a better bowler than Steyn. Both are very potent, but Lee is more likely to get it right than Steyn.

 

[Richard]

Trent Bridge but yeah.

Well TBF he sort of did the same thing at Edgbaston, or at least his bowling resulted in it (I didn't really consider that he bowled all that well, just got Trescothick with a rank bad ball, a nightwatchman and two other wickets that I can't remember with absolute clarity) but that obviously wasn't the specifics old DB was referring to.

 

[Uppercut]

Nope, Lee's bowled better than Steyn over the past year.

Don't know about that at all. I'd say Lee's the better bowler, but Steyn over the past year has been unstoppable, S/R of 31, average of 17 in 2007+08. Statistics aside too, he's just looked unbelievably awesome at times. Steyn's outswinger on middle moving to off is probably the most unplayable ball in world cricket, Lee has no real equivalent. While i would predict Steyn to take a small downturn over the next year, i expect Lee to carry on improving, because he's the more capable bowler. But to say Lee has bowled better than Steyn over the year just past i don't believe is true.

 

[tooextracool]

Not really. Lee=Steyn for the last year. Its never easy for anyone on your first tour of England in the disciplines of batting, bowling & keeping the adjustment factor at times can take a while to get used to. Don't think Steyn has bowled too badly tbh won't be surprised if he takes a big haul before the series is out.

Actually having relooked at his stats from the past year, you cant argue with his performances. They have been consistently good series after series and hes bowled around the world. Hes been disappointing in this tour thus far though and thats clouded my opinion on him a little bit (and Ive watched more of Lee than Steyn) and Im also worried about how good hes going to be once he loses a few yards in terms of pace given how short he is.

 

[Uppercut]

Actually having relooked at his stats from the past year, you cant argue with his performances. They have been consistently good series after series and hes bowled around the world. Hes been disappointing in this tour thus far though and thats clouded my opinion on him a little bit (and Ive watched more of Lee than Steyn) and Im also worried about how good hes going to be once he loses a few yards in terms of pace given how short he is.

AWTA, also noone can possibly maintain the standard of Steyn over the past two years for very long. For those reasons i rate Lee more highly, but that's not to take anything away from how good a bowler Steyn is right now.

 

[The Masterplan]

... Lets get Saj Mahmood in for the third test ...

 

[sledger]

... Lets get Saj Mahmood in for the third test ...

Let's not.

 

[Arjun]

I'm a little late here, but what were the dumbest England selections according to you? I've read more than a few pages on who should replace Pattinson, but selection, it seems, was why the English lost this match.