• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* South Africa in England Thread

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
chris.hinton said:
Coaches should treat players with respect and viceversa, As for Lincolnshire cricket it is on the up, with the under 17s winning promotion and the first team winnning the minor counties championship
Under 17s still only second division, mind, and I'm not overly convinced about some of their attitudes to the game...

As for the 1st XI... the minor counties final starts tomorrow...

And it will probably get rained off, however it's only 250 metres from my house so I will be down there on Monday (club "duties" on Sat/Sun)
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
ok, my district presentation was an hour or so ago and ive just come back from it...

Neil Pickup said:
If I were you in that situation then I would already have turned round and given the "coach" a volley of abuse.

As a coach myself I would never hope to take an aggressive approach towards a player - and a junior player, too - unless he had a huge personality/attitude problem and/or blatantly wasn't trying - not in that case for certain.

In defence of district coaches - I know the NE Lincs coach is nothing like that but I can't speak for the rest of the country. I know from painful experience that a lot of other teams seem to have an attitude of victory through whatever means possible - great big slogs mostly - rather than the development of cricket and playing proper shots..

Your "coach" has probably broken the ECB Coaches' Code of Conduct in more than one place so you are well within your rights to complain.

He could do well to remember that it's a lot easier for a coach to destroy a player than to improve him.

As for pitches, I've seen some dismal artificials and excellent grass pitches as well as grass wickets that make you soil your pants and artifical paradises.





ok, like ive mentioned earlier the only thing good about my my district and presumably all others is their organization, they get the season stats of all the players from their schools clubs and of course districts and present them whatever theyve won etc.. in a presentation morning.

anyways ive just received the usual letter of stats and comments and here it is!


Jerome J******* - E**** School/ B****** Cricket Club/ ****** District

Right Handed Batsman/ Right Arm Medium Fast
School Vice-Captain/Club Captain/District Vice-Captain

Summer 2003 Statistics

Batting
m-56 i-47 no-30 runs-1320 hs-107* 50s-12 100s-1 sr-74 avg-77.65

Bowling
o-151.4 m-32 runs-507 wkts-47 4/h- 3 5'h-0 bb- 4/7 econ-4.01 avg-12.91

Coaches Comments

Well Done Jerome on a good season with the bat allround, if you erase some of your flaws which i will address later on, it is thought that you will have a place in the Kent u-16s maybe even u-15s if you better yourself quickly.
Anyway, the main strength in your batting is your technique, it considerably of a higher level than others who play amongst you at your club. You have yet again shown yourself to be very strong on the offside and off your pads, but your weakness still remains your pull and hook shot. Which leads me onto my point about your inability to slog, i mean, it is all good and fine to accumalate runs like you do but agressive batting is what wins games and remember that is what cricket and all games are about. The sooner you adjust your style to being more attacking the better.
Bowling wise,you have serious problems because medfast is only useful for slowing down the runrate and even in that your economy rate is over 4, which is rather poor at the very most it should be 3.50 not a bit more..you need to work on your bowling if you want to establish yourself as a allrounder...or you can work on your fitness and gain extra pace so you can bowler much quicker, pace is necessary to be noticed.

Remember also, that stats is everything, you maybe pleased that your batting average is 77 but thats in 25 over games i mean it will only be worhtwhile if its still over 45 when you halve it, and your average will be only 37.5 which is okay at best, you need to bat more aggressively to get more runs and to see how good your bowling average is tripel it and you should have it under 23 but yours is 36 which absolutely pathetic. So, the main point is winning requires agressiveness with the ball and bat.
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
i have protected the names of several things for the sake of privacy...and the coach there has suggested many things but will not be there at the nets to help players..my report is one of the good ones, imagine how hard he is going to be on one of the people who didnt perform to the best of ability....or is this all acceptable and happening throughout the world...
 

Craig

World Traveller
Well off all the the crazy decisions the England selectors have done (picking Anthony McGrath for example) - bringing back Thorpe has to be the smartest decisions they have done.

With him in it,it makes the England batting line-up much stronger.

I guess I'm stating the obvious?
 

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Re: ok, my district presentation was an hour or so ago and ive just come back from it...

gibbsnsmith said:
Which leads me onto my point about your inability to slog, i mean, it is all good and fine to accumalate runs like you do but agressive batting is what wins games and remember that is what cricket and all games are about. The sooner you adjust your style to being more attacking the better.
That's a joke. If I had a player who was technically correct I wouldn't be after him to slog and destroy the technique that he did have. Just ignore the guy and keep playing properly as otherwise you'll limit yourself to what you can do as once you get to a certain level, you'll be found out.

Bowling wise,you have serious problems because medfast is only useful for slowing down the runrate and even in that your economy rate is over 4, which is rather poor at the very most it should be 3.50 not a bit more..you need to work on your bowling if you want to establish yourself as a allrounder...or you can work on your fitness and gain extra pace so you can bowler much quicker, pace is necessary to be noticed.
Two words, Shaun and Pollock. You either gain the pace or you work on swing and accuracy which can be achieved at medium fast. Is the man able to think with an open mind or not?!

Remember also, that stats is everything, you maybe pleased that your batting average is 77 but thats in 25 over games i mean it will only be worhtwhile if its still over 45 when you halve it, and your average will be only 37.5 which is okay at best, you need to bat more aggressively to get more runs and to see how good your bowling average is tripel it and you should have it under 23 but yours is 36 which absolutely pathetic. So, the main point is winning requires agressiveness with the ball and bat.
One, stats aren't everything. Our batting trophies have been won by people averaging mid-20s and the runner up averaged 10.5 this year @ U15. I don't care what sort of cricket, 77 is brilliant (and 37.5 is damn good too). 36 would have made you a strike bowler in our U15s never mind 12.91 and you don't say "absolutely pathetic" unless the player knows he's crap and has a sense of humour along with it - even then not in an end of season report!

Aggression is needed yes, but not slogs and that kind of thing. Pushing singles, working the ball, angling the bat and mentality are where it's to be had.

I'm not sure there's too much need for the *ing out - most of us are very open about our clubs/districts but if you're happier doing it like that then that's not a problem.

Add me to your msn on minardineil2000 @ hotmail . com if you want to discuss more :)
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
IMO, the finest opening batsman England have produced in the last 40 years is Geoff Boycott by an absolute military mile.

Over the last two days, Trescothick has demonstrated that he has the attributes to become a good enough opener to be mentioned in the same breath. Not by the criterion of slogging or playing over-aggressively but by the 'proper' opening batsman approach of leaving alone as many balls as possible early in his innings, forcing the bowler to change HIS approach then profiting from the consequences.

Now all we need to do is to find some bowlers (and a wicketkeeper). Unfortunately, there's no easy formula there (apart from getting jug-ears fit and cloning Bob Taylor).

I had a fiver on England to win the current game when they were 8-1. At least I'm getting a run for my money for once.
 

anzac

International Debutant
hey guys I know this is off thread but I can't help wanting to respond to the recent threads from gibbsnsmith & neil......

A successful career in cricket is all about technique, technique, technique. Bradman, Ponting, Tendulkar are all about technique, - not slog!!!! Aggression is fine - I'm a big supporter of it as a tactic, but in order for it to be successful you need to know when it is applicable (both as a team & individual), and the TECHNIQUE to do so!!!

Medium pacers are underestimated as a weapon - everyone seems to want the 'big' weapons & IMO teams lack balance & variety. At worst as a sometime 'all rounder' they may be selected in Tests as batsmen & backup bowlers, in ODIs they are ideal at applying pressure by drying up the run rate - see Astle.

Stats are not everything - at least not in the way that he refers. IMO the most important stats are strike & economy rates, and how a player contributes to the success of the team. A lower order 'all rounder' can not be expected to have the same averages as the top order or strike bowlers!

So far as averages go there are plenty of International cricketers who are specialists in one area or the other who would love to have those sorts of averages, and plenty of others around those marks who have successful international careers.

I find it appalling that this is supposedly seen as 'constructive criticism' and is delivered in absenteeism. This sort of thing should be done 1 on 1 as a positive excercise, with constructive & supportive comments as well as the critique, and a mutually agreed upon action plan & direction.

if this is typical of the coaching / support / encouragement of youth cricket in England then no wonder the County & National teams are f****d!!!!!

my suggestions to gibbnsmith - get rid of the coach or transfer to a team where the coaching environment is more constructive & supportive - this guy ain't going to do your development & future chances any good.

Neil - good response - hope he takes you up in a more appropriate forum.

:!( :!( :!( :!( :!(
 

anzac

International Debutant
and now back to the cricket........


a very good day for England......a 1st innings lead & wickets in hand.

Trescothick finds form at last & Thorpe answers his critics in the most emphatic way - well done & congradulations to both, and an emotional welcome for Stewart as he made his way to the middle for possibly the last time.

with only 2 days to go & 2 and a bit innings to play I can't see anything in the pitch / teams to suggest anything other than a draw.

Is it me or does England only perform in test series when their backs are against the wall - 5th Ashes tests, this one......

:)
 

Craig

World Traveller
luckyeddie said:
IMO, the finest opening batsman England have produced in the last 40 years is Geoff Boycott by an absolute military mile.
Ahh a great player and so was Gooch.

BTW how far is a military mile?
 

Craig

World Traveller
England are 604-9 after Flintoff's wirlwind innings. Anderson and Harmison are not really trying to score runs, so it is time to declare.

No point in Anderson playing for his average (and I thought I would never say that about a tailender) :O :O
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
ok there are a few offtopic points i want to make...


1] neil, ill add you to my msn in like a week, cos im not gonna bother with this [s***] pc, im waiting for my new one which will arrive on saturday
2] i have been talking to a elderly man who i respect he has some sort boardroom for job in Surrey[hes a mate of my Dad so i know him quite personally] and he has told me regretfully that acoording to him that sort of coacxhing is very common these days and he says coaches think that that sort of method is the qucikest way to get a winning english lineup. and Mr.*****
says its a damn shame, that this is the case because the coaches thesedays all [or rather mostly in london/surrey/essex/kent] are all very much into raising good players for england which they think they can do by raising winning teams


well...thats it

and back to the topic






Harmison really deserves a lot of credit for his partnership with freddy, i think that he has a very good base for becoming a decent lower order batsman -which is his solid enough defence, now surely he can spend some time working on his technique to develop his batting a bit more
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I think Harmison's net time is beter suited sorting his bowling to reach it's potential first.

Interesting after all the criticism of Flintoff from certain quarters that he is England's highest run-scorer in the series. Shows what we missed down under in the winter.
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
ok how about this

work on his batting on his SPARE time when not practising bowling [and after taking a rest]
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Smith ending with just 719 runs in the series. Yes, that's a massive total, but with the start he got, he must be at least a little disappointed.
 

gibbsnsmith

State Vice-Captain
yes, he should be , but still nonetheless he made a valuable contribution, its just too bad his counterpart Vaughn didnt do so except his 156....

oh yeah Liam [if you dont mynd me calling you that] as you seem to be mr.stats, can you please put up the series avgs [after the test ofcourse :) ]
 

SpaceMonkey

International Debutant
Although a great batsmen Smith was helped by the poor bowling.
We basically bowled to his strength for 2 tests.
Any top 20 batsmen in the world would have got 200 if teams with 2nd strong bowlers in their team bowled to their strengths...wouldnt you think? :D

Smith was also dropped on 8 with a very easy catch for his 2nd double ton too.

Also i think Rudolph has averaged just over 10 in this series. Which for a batsmen with apparently so much talent is abismal.
Kallis hasnt looked on form for this series either (for obvious reasons).

Kirsten and Gibbs have both being outstanding ill give them that.

But the fact is if it wasnt for the lower order of SA England would have comfertably won the series with a 2nd string bowling lineup.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
And England should now be on the verge of a 3-2 series win IMO.

First 2 to SA, next 3 to us (if we'd been ruthless at Headingley we'd be sitting pretty now 2-1 up.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
SpaceMonkey said:
1/ Although a great batsmen Smith was helped by the poor bowling.

2/ But the fact is if it wasnt for the lower order of SA England would have comfertably won the series with a 2nd string bowling lineup.
1/ It was great batting, but I wouldn't call him a great batsman yet.

2/ I disagree. I think that England may have won the series, but certainly not comfortabley. The top order batting has been quite good for SA as well.
 

Top