*Official* South Africa in England Thread

[Rik]

Re: Trescothick

Yeah I'd like to know that too, didn't bowl too badly for Somerset and looked a useful part-timer when he was given the chance for England, yet ever since the winter tour of Pakistan and Sri Lanka, he has been content to stand at slip, maybe he feels that now he's a senior player he doesn't have to bowl, especially as Butcher and Vaughan are useful part-timers.

Now on to the match. What's worried me the most is not the lack of wickets, it's that kind of pitch, no, it's the fact that England should have worked out that they need to bowl line and length yet the run rate has just been going up and up as each session goes by. I think it's quite fair to rule out England going for victory now, 349-3 nearing the end of the 1st day! Gibbs misses a slog against Giles and gets bowled, and McKenzie in so the scoring will probably go down for a while. Whilst the bowling has been dreadful today, it's hardly been any better during the entire series, and dispite a few changes due to injury, it's been the main core of bowlers than England have used all summer. This is a fact that cannot be overlooked and needs sorting out desperately. If you attack can't take wickets, then in the next few games they still can't, then something's wrong. I'd love to have the attitude of the England Selectors...ie "nothing's wrong", the sorry fact is, it is, and this fact just gets more and more obvious as the series goes on.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Giles again! This time he bowled Gibbs who tried to whack it for 4...Maybe including him wasn't such a bad choice - but why did they play Anderson, who's been out of form for the whole series (as I write, he bowled a maiden, but three balls outside off and the last was saved by Giles)!

Still 349 would have been a respectable score. For three wickets it's unbeatable (even on a batting paradise) unless the SA middle order collapses, which I doubt strongly.

And yes, Trescothick must be better than Mark Butcher.

EDIT: To Rik, who would you want to play instead of the existing bowling attack? Kabir Ali, yes, but who else?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What I don't understand is why the curator would prepare a dead batting wicket when bowling is the problem? Is not the 'home advantage' supposed to mean that you actually try to give your team an advantage of sorts? Especially when you desperately need a win...

 

[Neil Pickup]

Four down. McKenzie nicks Anderson behind and maybe, just maybe?

SA all out 490.

England 720-5 declared

SA all out 225

Innings win. Easy...

 

[chris.hinton]

Giles bowled well for once he looked like taking wickets

 

[marc71178]

Marc feels Giles is bowling as well as he ever has in his International Career, well, I'd beg to differ.

What I actually said was he was at his highest points at both batting and bowling (this was earlier in the season) - at least he got a couple today, but being looked in the office all day I don't know a lot more than that.

 

[marc71178]

Giles has twice beaten Kallis in the flight and both time been hit hard through the offside for four and six (high into the second tier) in the past five minutes. Slow Kallis, eh? 25* off 15.

He should bowl it flat.

Flat spin rules

 

[marc71178]

Giles bowled well for once he looked like taking wickets

He has actually looked threatening before this series, but hasn't really got the results he deserved at times.

 

[Langeveldt]

SA should be happy at their position, but the work is not done at all...

I think England have missed a trick, surely they should have taken advantage of being at home and produced a wicket that would make a result more likely??

 

[gibbsnsmith]

you really cant get more unlucky than england

1] harmison and flintoff as well as they have bowled [more or less] are too unlucky to get wickets

2] they still lack their killer edge which they hoped they found in anderson

3]their selectors maybe just be baboons, or may not well have to check into that

 

[Rik]

SA should be happy at their position, but the work is not done at all...

I think England have missed a trick, surely they should have taken advantage of being at home and produced a wicket that would make a result more likely??

Yeah, that's one of the most puzzling aspects of this game, I mean England have home advantage, they can tell the groundsman to produce a certain type of pitch, they need a result, so why do they let Surrey produce a batting paradise? I mean the bowling has struggled enough as it is against SA, so why let Surrey produce a pitch most teams would have problems taking 20 wickets on? WE ARE 2-1 DOWN!!! WAKE UP!!! It seems the ECB have forgotten one of their most important roles...

 

[Rik]

EDIT: To Rik, who would you want to play instead of the existing bowling attack? Kabir Ali, yes, but who else?

Throw caution to the wind! The current attack couldn't take 10 wickets in a ODI against Bangladesh...

Batty in for Giles, why not, he might have more luck

Johnson in for Anderson, Jimmy has needed a break for several weeks now and Johnno is fit so there is no excuse to leave him out.

Kabir Ali in for Kirtley who's injured.

I'll let Harmison off for this one, although I'd rather have Hoggy in, but then he only just has started playing for Yorkshire again.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah, that's one of the most puzzling aspects of this game, I mean England have home advantage, they can tell the groundsman to produce a certain type of pitch, they need a result, so why do they let Surrey produce a batting paradise? I mean the bowling has struggled enough as it is against SA, so why let Surrey produce a pitch most teams would have problems taking 20 wickets on? WE ARE 2-1 DOWN!!! WAKE UP!!! It seems the ECB have forgotten one of their most important roles...

I'm not sure how long ago work on the pitch for this game was started - it may be it was too long ago to significantly change it to suit the situation.

Still, had England been ruthless, they'd love a draw pitch here as they'd be 2-1 from Headingley...

 

[marc71178]

Throw caution to the wind! The current attack couldn't take 10 wickets in a ODI against Bangladesh...

Batty in for Giles, why not, he might have more luck

Johnson in for Anderson, Jimmy has needed a break for several weeks now and Johnno is fit so there is no excuse to leave him out.

Kabir Ali in for Kirtley who's injured.

I'll let Harmison off for this one, although I'd rather have Hoggy in, but then he only just has started playing for Yorkshire again.

Not sure why Johnson hasn't been called up - he is a case of someone who did well when called upon, and seems to have been playing for Somerset most of the he's been "injured" so his non-selection is puzzling.

Anderson needed a break after 2 games IMO, but they've stuck with him when he's not been performing,

Kabir I wasn't that impressed with in the 4th Test, and I don't think Vaughan was that happy with him either, seeing as he didn't bowl him anywhere near as much as he would've done.

Bicknell's retention baffled me - I would've like to go in with 2 spinners (just to try something different)

My position on Harmison is well documented, and I think he needs to play whilst Jones is out just to give some variety - at Headlingley we had 5 right arm bowlers of similar pace - too easy for the batsmen. Add someone who's 5-10 mph quicker than anyone else in the game, and it's a different story.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Johnson is fit enough to play for Somerset, but not England, afaik.

 

[Craig]

I cant work out England's think tank.

I mean they bowl Giles in a defensive manner and he doesnt pick up wickets and then doing this would rank up their about as smart as opening up a can of beer in public in Saudi Arabia - bowling wide balls outside off stump from Flintoff in an attempt to bore Gary Kirsten.

Ok if it were Afridi, Gilchrist or Hayden, fine, they would probably committ suicide (cricket suicide), but not to Kirsten is very patient. I cant work it out.

Flintoff could be a better bowler if he actualy pitched the ball up.

 

[Top_Cat]

I watched around 75% of the day and in that time, not a single English bowler looked likely to take a wicket anytime soon. Harmison was threatening occasionally in bowling how I personally think he should be bowling ("hip-to-heart") but Anderson looked quite flat in his body language, Flintoff looked quite flat too and on pitches as road-like as this, Giles just isn't going to threaten. Bicknell, in bowling less than 120km/h, is going to get pumelled every time if he doesn't get the swing required.

Mind you the real issue is probably the deck itself; why oh why with a drawn series in the offing, did the curators at The Oval prepare a pitch like this? It's just far too good for any decent bowling to get through any of the SA batsmen. I mean, Anderson and Harmison didn't bowl THAT badly in terms of line or length but any slightly off-line or off-length delivery was dispatched to the fence. England's bowling lacked sparkle but the high number of boundaries can be put down to the pitch a little too. There was remarkably little sideways movement for the quicks.

Still you have to wonder about picking guys like Bicknell. Someone who hits the seam at pace may have been a better option. How about a Steve Kirby or a leftie for example? The attack looks much like South Africa's did for a little while; too much of the same in each bowler.

 

[anzac]

I caught an interesting theory regarding the series pitches during the last Test (?) - I think it was a discussion involving Gower, Lloyd & Botham, who were all bemoaning the flatness of the wickets in the series.

The theory was that the groundsman had been instructed to prepare pitches that would ensure 5 days of cricket, and NOT allow for any shortened matches by one team or the other taking / gaining any advantage from the pitch.

Consequently you have flat batter friendly tracks in so much as there is little of no movement of seam or swing, and not a lot of turn. The only variation for the bowlers is variable bounce.

I know the last pitch was damp on day 1, and questions were raised as to how this could be in such a dry summer - could be to 'freshen' it up so it would hold together for the 5 days and not break up too early for the spinners etc.

 

[anzac]

Day 1 - typical for this series

SA win the toss and bat;
another big century by an SA top order batsman;
the England bowlers look flat & their attack lacks any form of penetration;
at least 2 of the seam attack go for truck loads!!!!!

 

[Rik]

Johnson is fit enough to play for Somerset, but not England, afaik.

He bowled 27.4 overs the other day, the most by any Somerset bowler in that innings. I think he's fit enough for England. I think England have just decided to ignore him instead.