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*Official* South Africa in England Thread
- Thread starter Rik
- Start date
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Well, had you watched the spell you'd have seen a superb over which was all on the button, followed by 4 more super balls on the stumps which Gibbs had trouble with, then the one that he got width and chopped on before a brute first up to Kirsten.Rik said:
He continued with a great next over or two, and the TV then cut out.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
OK then, name 2 names - 1 that would be a better bet than Flintoff, and one that could bowl better than Giles (who has incidentally picked up a great deal of praise for his bowling in both Tests so far)Rik said:
Until you actually stick your head on the block, there's no point in moaning about what the selectors select.
Craig
World Traveller
I was really disapionted in Ntini and Flintoff. Ntini might have taken 5 wickets, but he did spray the ball around and got his wickets to poor batting.
Flintoff showed that he is not of Test class by his moronic hook shot. When England needed a partnership, he went and threw his wicket away.
If Craig White were fit enough, then I would pick him as he is a better batsman and bowler then Flintoff.
Flintoff showed that he is not of Test class by his moronic hook shot. When England needed a partnership, he went and threw his wicket away.
If Craig White were fit enough, then I would pick him as he is a better batsman and bowler then Flintoff.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Craig White's in the same boat as Ronnie Irani - may never really be effective as a bowler again owing to injury.
I cannot see any reason to persevere with Flintoff any more. Five years he's been playing test cricket - and his shot selection is as questionable now as it was then (and his bowling's way below test standard).
The guy's a banger - and I don't think he can change. Just the way he is. Perhaps a luxury a really good team can afford, but not England at this moment. If his bowling was any good, I could forgive his mental aberrations with the bat.
I think the ODIs and the early part of the season suggested that they were on the right lines, but the old frailties are still there.
And I don't like laid-back captains.
I cannot see any reason to persevere with Flintoff any more. Five years he's been playing test cricket - and his shot selection is as questionable now as it was then (and his bowling's way below test standard).
The guy's a banger - and I don't think he can change. Just the way he is. Perhaps a luxury a really good team can afford, but not England at this moment. If his bowling was any good, I could forgive his mental aberrations with the bat.
I think the ODIs and the early part of the season suggested that they were on the right lines, but the old frailties are still there.
And I don't like laid-back captains.
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
A great deal of praise, yes from you. 4 wickets at 55...hmmmmmmarc71178 said:
You seem to have forgotten I named 2 names but you claimed Brown couldn't be picked because he can't bat. Well I'll make it simple for you, drop one of the underperforming seamers who can't bat...
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
He's proof that ODIs don't mean anything when it comes to Tests, and vise versa. Flintoff's bowling is effective in ODIs because he can bowl straight and get bounce and the batsmen are allways looking to score, in Test cricket this is not so. His accuracy has even given up on him now.luckyeddie said:
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well, there's only one who falls into that category.Rik said:
Harmison was our best bowler by a military mile yesterday.
Anderson and Gough were our best batsmen by a military mile yesterday.
Come in number 7, your time is up.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Anyone. My milkman WG Singh.Rik said:
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
We seem to be carrying this conversation on in two threads. Cloudy at Lord's - if Gough and Anderson cannot take wickets in utterly perfect English conditions, then they ought to just stick to their batting.Rik said:
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
It's raining nowluckyeddie said:We seem to be carrying this conversation on in two threads. Cloudy at Lord's - if Gough and Anderson cannot take wickets in utterly perfect English conditions, then they ought to just stick to their batting.
And when it's forecast to get better I'm going out :!(
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Were you watching this game or not? He was bowling very well (as mentioned by all the commentators) and 4 wickets at 55 stacks up well when you compare it with the other front-line bowlers - Harmison is next then Anderson and Gough have combined figures of 2-280. Positively Salisbury-esqeRik said:
You never mentioned a name to replace Flintoff - you suggested 2 spinners to replace the one who's currently doing a good job.Rik said:
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
Yes I have but I do not feel that one average performance means someone is exempt from critisism just because the others haven't bowled well.
Marc, however much you wish Giles was doing a good job, he's not helping us to win matches, and now is a good time to try out a young spinner. Maybe it's the Warwickshire thing maybe it isn't. Flintoff, who would you replace him with? I think even Mark Butcher could bowl better than Flintoff is currently. Looking around the counties I see several players suitable, but I'll leave you to claim they are not.
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luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
The following people are certainties in my mind for the third test :
Trescothick (for now)
Vaughan
Butcher
Thorpe
Giles
Anderson
Harmison
To that list I would like to add Read and Ed Smith.
By my reckoning, that means I would need another main line bowler for sure and a batsman/bowler.
And then the problems start. Kirtley is the obvious choice (or Johnson if fit) as bowler. Of the tried and tested 'all-rounders', the only name worth considering (for two seconds then rejecting) is Cork. So - spot the new, up and coming all-rounder. I can't see one by any stretch of the imagination. Top all-rounder in the country at the moment - Phil DeFreitas. Says it all.
I'd rather see us lose than continue with Hussain and Flintoff
Trescothick (for now)
Vaughan
Butcher
Thorpe
Giles
Anderson
Harmison
To that list I would like to add Read and Ed Smith.
By my reckoning, that means I would need another main line bowler for sure and a batsman/bowler.
And then the problems start. Kirtley is the obvious choice (or Johnson if fit) as bowler. Of the tried and tested 'all-rounders', the only name worth considering (for two seconds then rejecting) is Cork. So - spot the new, up and coming all-rounder. I can't see one by any stretch of the imagination. Top all-rounder in the country at the moment - Phil DeFreitas. Says it all.
I'd rather see us lose than continue with Hussain and Flintoff