*Official* South Africa in England Thread

[luckyeddie]

I claim the high ground of consistency regarding Flintoff.

When I came to this forum a year ago I said he was rubbish then, always had been rubbish and always will be rubbish.

Play either a proper batsman or a proper bowler instead of a guy who cannot do either.

Saying that, he'll probably take six wickets and get a double hundred in the second innings to save the game.

Yeah.

 

[hourn]

I know you guys have this impression that i'm a pommy basher and nothing but it - but i do give credit where its due, and i recognize your rugby team, along with the all blacks, as easily the best rugby teams in the world. Australia are utterly pathetic and I even picked that we'd get dominated in this world cup after about 3 rounds of super 12 footy.

Whilst I know in cricket terms, Australian cricket is in a stronger position than any other team ever has been. I don't neccasrilly think we have the best team ever (I actually have always voted Windies mid 80's as a better team) but in today's proffesional world, we are seeing the rich getting richer, and Australia's superiority in terms of off-field developing is growing exponentially. Even though I think the Windies were stronger in the 80's, because it was so much more amatuer back than, cricket was still very cyclical in the way teams had up periods and down periods.

And in terms oif the Poms at the moment - any credability they had is setting sail to fly out the window at the moment.

This is utterly pathetic whats happened in the first 7 days of this series. Graeme Smith is a top young batsmen, and looks like he will be a gun, but the English bowlers are making him look like Don Bradman at the moment. Not taking away he is a great talent, but he's been made to look much better than what he is by some trashy bowling.

There really does need to be a clean out of English cricket. I hope, for your sake, you don't take the Eddie Jones "there's nothing wrong, we're moving in the right direction" philosophy. Because I can tell you, there is a hell of a lot wrong with Australian Rugby, and there story ain't much better with English cricket.

 

[hourn]

Smith just taken 3 fours from Anderson - he's in complete control at the moment.

1/320ish

 

[luckyeddie]

Hourn - at the moment, it's the Poms who are Pommie-bashing (and Smith, of course) so you are well off the hook.

So much is about attitude - in the current game, there have been chins resting on chests for too long - but there's more to it than that.

For instance, England's main strike bowler (Anderson) is a guy who has had a remarkable start to his career - yet he cannot bowl. By that I don't mean that he can't get the ball in the right place - the fact that he cannot get his FEET in the right place is indicative of someone who has not been coached correctly (this could be the fault of the coaching staff, of course) - and as such now that he has attracted the attention of umpires, he will be a passenger or a liability. He MUST be removed from the side and his approach corrected forthwith.

We have a wicket-keeper who is not the best in his position by any means - this is because England 'hedge their bets' by having players with multiple roles - same with Flintoff (although he did just bowl a goodish spell).

6 batters, 4 bowlers and a keeper, please. Time to ditch the bit-part players.

 

[hourn]

For instance, England's main strike bowler (Anderson) is a guy who has had a remarkable start to his career - yet he cannot bowl. By that I don't mean that he can't get the ball in the right place - the fact that he cannot get his FEET in the right place is indicative of someone who has not been coached correctly (this could be the fault of the coaching staff, of course) - and as such now that he has attracted the attention of umpires, he will be a passenger or a liability. He MUST be removed from the side and his approach corrected forthwith.

yeah Anderson has quite a lot of technical faults in his game, another being his head just as he hits his devilery stride.

But I still think he is probably the most talented of your young bowlers - just needs some coaching.

Harmison is completely useless, and seems to be lacking in fitness to compound it. His bouncer seems as if it's almost on the way down when it reaches the batsmen half the time he bowls it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm just watching stats here (365/1 :O ) but it seems to me that England have a worse bowling attack than the West Indies (until Edwards, Collymore and co. picked it up).

 

[hourn]

I'm just watching stats here (365/1 :O ) but it seems to me that England have a worse bowling attack than the West Indies (until Edwards, Collymore and co. picked it up).

as I said, Gareme Smith is a huge talent, but they are making him look like Don Bradman.,

Where is that Dick Johnson guy gone?? Is he injured??

 

[luckyeddie]

and now Gary Kirsten goes to a ton

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes Richard Johnson is injured.

Graeme Smith on the verge of his 3rd Test double hundred! Wow! If he get's it, his first 3 hundreds will be doubles (albeit gained against weak bowling attacks) - what a start to a career! :wow:

 

[hourn]

Kirsten just bought up his ton, Smith on 198 - 1/378

 

[luckyeddie]

I'm just watching stats here (365/1 :O ) but it seems to me that England have a worse bowling attack than the West Indies (until Edwards, Collymore and co. picked it up).

I think that our attack currently is of a Zimbabwe/Bangladesh standard - although of yet we haven't managed to bore anyone out

 

[hourn]

and what about Matthew Hoggard?? is he injured too??

Here we go, McGrath into the attack - he may just cement his spot as a bowler

No, no, no chance of that - Smith double ton of his first ball

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Hoggard is injured too I believe.

 

[hourn]

what other injuries have they got??

All is not too bad if they've still got those two to come back in.

Just looking up a few things around CricInfo, and although we know Giles isn't a wickettaker, but this is just pathetic - in his last 9 tests, only 6 times has he managed to take more than 1 wicket in an innings.

Even as a containing bowler, you need to do more than that.

 

[hourn]

Here we go, McGrath into the attack - he may just cement his spot as a bowler

maybe he will - just bowled Kirsten.

2/390

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Smith will fly up the Test rankings...

 

[luckyeddie]

It's called 'using the conditions'.

Have you noticed just how many balls from Harmison, Anderson, Flintoff and Gough swung AFTER they had pitched?

Do you know what that indicates?

That they were bowling too fast for the conditions.

Similar to something Derek Underwood once said : "Every pitch has a perfect pace" - well, every atmosphere has too.

 

[hourn]

Here's a rough blueprint for a "rescue mission" for the Poms.

People have the impression that there is improvement, but personally I haven't seen it, at least not to the extent that they are claiming.

First off, as of the next test - Giles, Harmison, Flintoff and McGrath MUST be dropped.

They are substandard and not to upto it. Giles seems to be only there for the sake of playing a spinner, but they are better of bringing in 4 quickies if that's the case.

In his last 9 tests (as mentioned above) only 6 times has he managed to snare more than one scalp in an innings.

I'd bring two batsmen in, coming from:
- Ed Smith (5 tons this season so far, averaging over 55, 26 years of age - 2 years younger than McGrath, and career FC ave of 40).
- Andrew Strauss (Seen him play in Sydney for Mosman, very good batsmen but doubt he's a test player, but still averages 41 for FC career, and over 50 this season)
- Mark Wagh (another 26 year old, scoring a tad below 50 this season, and just over 40 for his careeer - also can bowl a bit of off-spin - probably better than what Giles can bowl)
- Michael Lumb (23 years old, South African born (is he eligible to play for England??), divison 2 player averaging over 50 and 6 scores of 50+ from 14 innings this season. Career average of 37). Prime Example here. Compare him v Anthony McGrath (I'm not neccasarilly saying that Lumb should be in the England XI but he is younger by a long way, has had a better season, and has had more succesful career but yet they go for Anthony McGrath. Go figure. I may not have seen Lumb play but I couldn't imagine he's any worse than McGrath)
- Graham Hick (perhaps maybe put some experience back in the team to go with all these young'uns I'm tossing up here, having a good season averaging nearly 50 with the bat)
- Nick Knight (another possible option for the Poms if they want some experience. He too is having a good season averaging around 50)
- Tim Ambrose (20 year old having a great season in division 1 averaging in excess of 40, and has now nearly boosted his career average above 40.)

Even though I haven't seen most of these guys bat, so don't bite my head of to fiercely, but I reckon Ed Smith seems the safest bet for number 5, while Lumb or Ambrose I reckon look worthy of been given a shot at number 7)

As for the bowling, with Hoggard and Johnson out, its hard, and there seems to be no spinners around, but two from:
- Chad Keegan (another south african born, so I'm not sure if he can play for England, but he's one of the leading wickettakers, still young (24 years) so maybe worth a shot)
- Ryan Sidebottom (played just one test two years ago, but still only 25, having a great year in country cricket. left armer will add variety and can't be any worse than Harmison)
- Steve Kirby (26 years old, having a good season in division 2, overall career average of 25, after 3 years of County cricket time to see if he can take another step??)

probably Keegan and Kirby seem to be the best options there.

At the very least, I couldn't see them being worse than Harmison.

So a possible team for the next test is:
Michael Vaughan (28)
Marcus Trescothick (29)
Mark Butcher (31)
Nasser Hussain (34)
Ed Smith (26)
Alec Stewart (40)
Michael Lumb (23)/Tim Ambrose (20)
Chad Keegan (26)
Darren Gough (32)
Steve Kirby (26)
James Anderson (21)

And for 2004, Hussain and Stewart I think will retire, and I don't think Gough will get back to his best.

Hoggard will come back into the bowling, as will Johnson. So unless there aren't any spinners that clearly stake their claim, one of Kirby or Keegan survives to be the fourth quick.

With the batting, Foster comes in as keeper, and Smith, Lumb and Ambrose become the middle order.

So in one season the average age of the team comes down from 29.5 to 26.5, so even if the results are still the same, the team can be allowed to develop together, whereas at the moment, the English team is a lot of bit part players, and don't seem to really have much time left in them either.

****NOTE: Having never seen these guys makes it hard to make judgement's, but the point remains; The pom's should be looking for a middle 20's guy to bat number 5 with a decent FC record (not a high 20's player with a very modest FC record) and a younger 20's type player to ease into the test scene batting at number 7, along with some mid 20's bowlers who have been doing well in county cricket.

 

[luckyeddie]

Not much to say about day two which will offer any crumbs of comfort to England fans or players.

Suffice to Say, Graeme Smith is in a remarkable run of form. There seems to be no point whatsoever in even contemplating a declaration tomorrow if South Africa are in sight of any records - the weather forecast for the next three days is for hot, dry, sunny conditions so they may as well make hay, looking to bat until well after tea in exactly the same way as they have batted for the last day and a half.

That is, don't go mad, put the all too frequent bad balls away and keep England chasing shadows.

Barry Richards this evening was talking about 700 - which caused Mark Nicholas to give him an incredulous glance and a quiet snigger. It's still a long way away but why not?

If they do get there, England can look forward to batting for two days to save the game - and seeing as two sessions was beyond them on Thursday, that's a pretty unlikely prospect.

What price a double hundred followed by a triple?

 

[V Reddy]

Yes Richard Johnson is injured.

Graeme Smith on the verge of his 3rd Test double hundred! Wow! If he get's it, his first 3 hundreds will be doubles (albeit gained against weak bowling attacks) - what a start to a career! :wow:

He also scored a century against a very good Pakistan bowling attack.