*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[SeamUp]

And dammitt why is the 3rd Test starting next week and not today.... stupid scheduling.

Must be due to British Open. Plus tests just don't start on a Monday/Tuesday.

 

[StephenZA]

Must be due to British Open. Plus tests just don't start on a Monday/Tuesday.

Nobody cares about that....

 

[Prince EWS]

And dammitt why is the 3rd Test starting next week and not today.... stupid scheduling.

Must be due to British Open. Plus tests just don't start on a Monday/Tuesday.

I think it's more just that three Tests in three weeks rarely happens due to workload concerns. This isn't an unusual thing.

 

[SeamUp]

Nobody cares about that....

I love a bit of British Open/Masters golf myself. A sport were Saffers have been clutch ie Locke, Player, Els, Goosen, Oosthuizen, Schwartzel

I think it's more just that three Tests in three weeks rarely happens due to workload concerns. This isn't an unusual thing.

Spot on Pews. With all the excitement we forget that the first 2 tests were back-to-back.

 

[ImpatientLime]

While I can understand this and experience, particularly for Test cricket ,is important but if England are struggling for top batsmen then they need to be picked. Rabada and QDK were picked at 20/21 because they where good enough regardless of everything else, 3 years late they are near the best in the world. Australia picked somebody like Henshaw at 21 when the team was put under pressure and he has done well for them, Root was 21 when picked. I just don`t quite understand this idea that you must gain experience, yes if there is no place in the team, but otherwise give them a chance. But consistently picking players that don't belong in the team when you have talented youngsters makes no sense to me.

yeahhhhhhhhhhhh.......england doesn't really produce talents like rabada or qdk. throwing those guys in at the deep end is a no brainer.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Spot on Pews. With all the excitement we forget that the first 2 tests were back-to-back.

Had either test gone well into day 5 they would have all needed the break. As it is they probably could have had one this week but the last pair are back to back so no issue with it.

 

[StephenZA]

I love a bit of British Open/Masters golf myself. A sport were Saffers have been clutch ie Locke, Player, Els, Goosen, Oosthuizen, Schwartzel

Spot on Pews. With all the excitement we forget that the first 2 tests were back-to-back.

I`m not really complaining, I do understand.... I actually also keep an eye on the Open`s and Masters, so don`t not enjoy.
but I just want me some test cricket and waiting another week is hard (Stamping his foot petulantly!)

 

[SeamUp]

I`m not really complaining, I do understand.... I actually also keep an eye on the Open`s and Masters, so don`t not enjoy.
but I just want me some test cricket and waiting another week is hard (Stamping his foot petulantly!)

Likewise. It is frustrating from the fans point of view. In the heat of battle there is a 9-day break. It feels weird.

Suppose that is where a county game for Markram/Phehlukwayo would have been good but supposedly some returned to SA and some have gone to the golf.

 

[SeamUp]

A genuine question. Was Ben Duckett hard done by ?

 

[_Ed_]

A genuine question. Was Ben Duckett hard done by ?

IMO no, but the door should still be open for him to earn his way back in.

 

[Prince EWS]

A genuine question. Was Ben Duckett hard done by ?

In a way, definitely. He got less Tests than pretty much every other batsman England have tried, and all of them were in very alien conditions for him.

On the other hand, part of the reason he was picked in the first place was a thought that he played spin better than most on the county circuit, and he was thoroughly owned by spin in his four Tests. It took away his main selling point.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Must be due to British Open. Plus tests just don't start on a Monday/Tuesday.

They scheduled the 2nd Test against the Wimbledon final and the British GP though...not sure cross-sport scheduling is a thing they're worried about

 

[SeamUp]

In a way, definitely. He got less Tests than pretty much every other batsman England have tried, and all of them were in very alien conditions for him.

On the other hand, part of the reason he was picked in the first place was a thought that he played spin better than most on the county circuit, and he was thoroughly owned by spin in his four Tests. It took away his main selling point.

Interesting. I wonder how much that is due to :

1) Wantage Road
2) Cricket fans , cricket selectors, cricket writers perceptions on his ability to play spin.

From what I have seen he looks the type who won't scratch around and when he plays a good innings the ball hardly misses the middle of the bat.

That is why I asked - just wanted to get a feel what others thought. Because just for the chances he got compared to others it was quite a drastic call the current regime haven't been making.

 

[Scaly piscine]

While I can understand this and experience, particularly for Test cricket ,is important but if England are struggling for top batsmen then they need to be picked. Rabada and QDK were picked at 20/21 because they where good enough regardless of everything else, 3 years late they are near the best in the world. Australia picked somebody like Henshaw at 21 when the team was put under pressure and he has done well for them, Root was 21 when picked. I just don`t quite understand this idea that you must gain experience, yes if there is no place in the team, but otherwise give them a chance. But consistently picking players that don't belong in the team when you have talented youngsters makes no sense to me.

Yea the whole experience thing is absolute bollocks. Frankly I just think Bayliss and the others just lack the capacity to actually look at someone and see something in them that will translate into a good Test cricketer. Partly because Bayliss can't be arsed looking anyway and self-admittedly knows nothing about County Cricket. When you have no-one around to point out these talents you end up relying more on pure numbers and Lions games. Duckett is an example of someone who at that time should never have made it into the Test side. Elsewhere I suspected they'd have had a word with him and told him his technique against spin ain't going to cut it. And perhaps now he'd have been in a position to vie for selection with a clean slate. Instead he's got 4 Tests of failures behind him. There's a different fundamental flaw that is clearly there with Ballance and it needs to be worked out before they come in and fail regularly at Test level. Because English cricket doesn't seem to be able to see these sorts of things they're incapable of selecting young talent without a catalogue of good performances behind them.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Yea the whole experience thing is absolute bollocks. Frankly I just think Bayliss and the others just lack the capacity to actually look at someone and see something in them that will translate into a good Test cricketer. Partly because Bayliss can't be arsed looking anyway and self-admittedly knows nothing about County Cricket. When you have no-one around to point out these talents you end up relying more on pure numbers and Lions games. Duckett is an example of someone who at that time should never have made it into the Test side. Elsewhere I suspected they'd have had a word with him and told him his technique against spin ain't going to cut it. And perhaps now he'd have been in a position to vie for selection with a clean slate. Instead he's got 4 Tests of failures behind him. There's a different fundamental flaw that is clearly there with Ballance and it needs to be worked out before they come in and fail regularly at Test level. Because English cricket doesn't seem to be able to see these sorts of things they're incapable of selecting young talent without a catalogue of good performances behind them.

haha what? if you don't take duckett on the back of his numbers last season you'd have people crying out that county cricket performance is being ignored.

seriously, you've just simultaneously moaned about the coaching set up for england not knowing enough about county cricket and as a result making ill informed selections and then moaned about the england selection of one of county crickets standout performers from 2016.

 

[Spark]

Interesting. I wonder how much that is due to :

1) Wantage Road
2) Cricket fans , cricket selectors, cricket writers perceptions on his ability to play spin.

From what I have seen he looks the type who won't scratch around and when he plays a good innings the ball hardly misses the middle of the bat.

That is why I asked - just wanted to get a feel what others thought. Because just for the chances he got compared to others it was quite a drastic call the current regime haven't been making.

For some reason a lot of (non-subcontinental) pundits mistake "can hit sixes over mid-on" for actually being good against spin, which has led to some properly mediocre players against spin in the subcontinent being talked up as "good against spin" (see Bell, Ian). That might have a bit to do with it.

 

[Howe_zat]

haha what? if you don't take duckett on the back of his numbers last season you'd have people crying out that county cricket performance is being ignored.

seriously, you've just simultaneously moaned about the coaching set up for england not knowing enough about county cricket and as a result making ill informed selections and then moaned about the england selection of one of county crickets standout performers from 2016.

just typical revisionist bollocks isn't it.

Duckett won the PCA Player of the Year and Young Player of the Year awards in 2016.

cricinfo:

Duckett made 2,706 runs across all formats in 2016 and began the season by scoring a career-best 282 not out in Northamptonshire's Specsavers County Championship match against Sussex at Wantage Road, and followed up with another double-century against Kent at Beckenham earlier this month.

The left-hander also made a maiden List A double century, an England Lions record 220 not out against Sri Lanka A at Canterbury, one of three three-figure scores in one-day cricket, and helped Northants to win the NatWest T20 Blast for the second time in four years.

He was voted Northamptonshire's Players' Player of the Year last week and he collected the Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year Award at their annual lunch on Tuesday.

Here's what people had to say about him against spin at the time:

“He has got it in him to do more than just survive against good spin bowlers on turning pitches,” said Ripley. “ He will not be a sitting duck with men around the bat, in fact he could do something special. I was really pleased he got the nod because it is a good part of the world for him to be going. If it was Australia and high-class new-ball bowlers with Ben opening the batting, that would be a tough gig.”

Duckett loves playing spin and he has a real chance of a Test debut against Bangladesh. He can lay a marker in the one-day series first batting at the top of the order in the absence of Alex Hales. He will then open the batting with Haseeb Hameed in the two, two-day warm up games before the first Test that Alastair Cook will miss to be at the birth of his first child.

Hameed has the makings of classic Test match player as a patient Boycottian opener. But in Bangladesh and India England will have to score quickly against the new ball, often the best time to bat. They do not want to be creeping slowly and put pressure on themselves to score when the spinners bowl or the ball starts to reverse. Duckett could offer the contrast to Cook.

“I am not too sure why it has been throughout my career and at school I have enjoyed playing spin and if I was to want to go anywhere on a first tour it would be Bangladesh and India,” said Duckett. “That is where I am going to be at my best and I am going to try and be as confident as I can. In red-ball cricket I have a lot to learn but my role at Northants is to be positive. If I get a half-volley on the first ball of the day I try to hit it for four. That is the way I play.

But never mind the facts, 'i know more than these idiot selectors' is just too appealing a fantasy for some people.

 

[Spark]

Yeah, but the thing was, those people were wrong, and quite horribly so about his play against spin. So it's a fair whack to point out that there's a disconnect there and that people shouldn't just take their statements on faith.

 

[StephenZA]

You see that makes no sense to me, talented young player given an opportunity and fails after 4 Tests in INDIA... so is discarded! If he is not talented why pick him in the first place, if he is, why drop him?

 

[Daemon]

2 in India and 2 in Bangladesh.

The Deshi pitches were probably harder to bat on though.