*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[StephenZA]

How the feelings of this thread has changed in 2 weeks is wonderful..... maybe it is just my emotional state though!

 

[marc71178]

i dunno why'd you get so angry

Have you never read a scaly post before?

 

[Rasimione]

Going to have to start putting people on ignore - writing people off based on their career average is moronic in the extreme. Stoneman averaged sub 30 in his first few seasons. That's not really relevant to now, he has scored plenty of runs the last 4-5 seasons. There are plenty of batsmen who've succeeded with worst records (Trescothick and Vaughan) and plenty who've failed with better. He's earned a shot, moreso than Ballance who keeps getting out pinned on top of the stumps to full deliveries.

As well as the thickos writing Jennings off based on two Tests where he's copped some great deliveries. Has CW started importing randoms from the Cricinfo comments section?

Wow such aggression. But anyway I'm just genuinely suprised at his average and having never seen him bat well even you can understand why I'd be suprised. By the way how old was Vaughn and Trescothick when they got selected with low averages? I'm willing to bet they were younger than Stoneman.

 

[fishyguy]

I always like the idea of 5 quality bowlers in your side. After all if the top 6 batsmen a'int gonna score runs consistently whats the 7th guy gonna do. At least if you can bowl the opposition out cheaply your team is more effective. This may be the way to go for SA as long as Philander and Morris deliver the goods

 

[grecian]

I always like the idea of 5 quality bowlers in your side. After all if the top 6 batsmen a'int gonna score runs consistently whats the 7th guy gonna do. At least if you can bowl the opposition out cheaply your team is more effective. This may be the way to go for SA as long as Philander and Morris deliver the goods

The two best sides in my life Windies 80s, Oz team didn't need five. 4, sometimes 3 good/great ones with fill-ins did okay for them. Gilchist and Dujon did okay at 7 for them. If you have a quality all-rounder you pick them though.

In the end, I really wish Stokes was that quality all-rounder in Tests everyone says he is, so far it's still inconsistent.

 

[CarlsbergXpress]

The two best sides in my life Windies 80s, Oz team didn't need five. 4, sometimes 3 good/great ones with fill-ins did okay for them. Gilchist and Dujon did okay at 7 for them. If you have a quality all-rounder you pick them though.

In the end, I really wish Stokes was that quality all-rounder in Tests everyone says he is, so far it's still inconsistent.

Trouble is England seem to be going back down the road of picking good all rounders that perhaps aren't great at either discipline. I mean I admire the progress Mo, Woakes and Stokes have made, but I'd be happier if we picked quality specialist batsmen or bowlers and had 1 or 2 all rounders.

I keep hearing that Stokes and Mo would get in the side as batsmen alone, that's worrying if you ask me. I fear it might be that there just aren't enough quality specialists around that warrant picking.

 

[Adders]

Trouble is England seem to be going back down the road of picking good all rounders that perhaps aren't great at either discipline. I mean I admire the progress Mo, Woakes and Stokes have made, but I'd be happier if we picked quality specialist batsmen or bowlers and had 1 or 2 all rounders.

I keep hearing that Stokes and Mo would get in the side as batsmen alone, that's worrying if you ask me. I fear it might be that there just aren't enough quality specialists around that warrant picking.

It might be worrying but I think that is the reality of the situation.......Moeen and Stokes do make the side as batsmen, and Woakes definitely does as a bowler.

I'm sure if there was a second Joe Root or Jimmy Anderson kicking around the counties we'd be picking them at the expense of what you're calling "bits and pieces players"

 

[Pothas]

Yep they do but I am back to the Moeen at 8 thing. If Stokes did not exist he would be nailed on for the all rounder spot and we would play the extra seamer but as it is we will more games with him at 8.

 

[CarlsbergXpress]

It might be worrying but I think that is the reality of the situation.......Moeen and Stokes do make the side as batsmen, and Woakes definitely does as a bowler.

I'm sure if there was a second Joe Root or Jimmy Anderson kicking around the counties we'd be picking them at the expense of what you're calling "bits and pieces players"

I wouldn't rate any of them "bits and pieces players" to be fair. My point really is that quality all rounders get into the side in both disciplines on merit.

I like the look of this England side, with a couple of specialists to take the pressure off the all rounders I think we'd challenge the best and be more consistent.

 

[Pothas]

The all rounder getting into the side with both disciples thing has never been true, has been true of very few players in history, at least in teams that are not terrible.

But yeah if we had some more specialists that were good we would be better, because you know we would have better players.

 

[CarlsbergXpress]

Mo making the side as a batsman? He bats like a bowler, with no application. Great when it comes off, but I'd have him at 8 also and hopefully not have to rely on him.

 

[Adders]

I'll take the 4 hundreds Mo has scored in the last year over what the miriad of top order failures we have tried have produced.

The guy is a batsmen who occasional has a day out with the ball. Our trouble is he is not (and we dont have) a spinner that is consistently test standard. If we had that and a solid opener this team would be set imo.

 

[grecian]

The all rounder getting into the side with both disciples thing has never been true, has been true of very few players in history, at least in teams that are not terrible.

But yeah if we had some more specialists that were good we would be better, because you know we would have better players.

Yep, this has always been the way, very rarely throughout their career does it happen that way, you get golden patches, and some like Imran and Rhodes who had separate times when they probably could play as both batsmen or bowler.

Yet in the end most contribute in both. A lot of the batsmen just bowl when conditions are favourable, hence why you must always look at the wickets taken rather than just the average, because those blokes are slogging through the hard times too.

 

[StephenZA]

It always surprises me that in the entire County scene there is no quality Eng batsmen, apparently. Their must be some youngsters in there that are quality and can be developed.

 

[StephenZA]

And dammitt why is the 3rd Test starting next week and not today.... stupid scheduling.

 

[Arachnodouche]

As well as Root is playing, he also needs to stonewall a bit and show the team he's willing to dig in. If the captain goes out flailing, little chance of the others giving a decent account of themselves.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It always surprises me that in the entire County scene there is no quality Eng batsmen, apparently. Their must be some youngsters in there that are quality and can be developed.

Clarke is good but only 21 and none of the rest of younger players have done anything this season. Lawrence is just turned 20, they will both play at some stage but the powers that be may have decided they aren't ready yet.

 

[ImpatientLime]

dan lawrence is having a decent time of it for essex, in division 1 too.

 

[Howe_zat]

The feeling that the well is dry is just because so many players have had a few tests here and there and people like to write off those that they have seen look bad on the telly as oppose to the cricinfo pages.

If county runs are your thing then Ballance is your man. If you have strong opinions on who should play ahead of him you'd better have something else to shout about.

PSA: If your post contains the words 'proven failure' or equivalent, delete it and start again

 

[StephenZA]

Clarke is good but only 21 and none of the rest of younger players have done anything this season. Lawrence is just turned 20, they will both play at some stage but the powers that be may have decided they aren't ready yet.

While I can understand this and experience, particularly for Test cricket ,is important but if England are struggling for top batsmen then they need to be picked. Rabada and QDK were picked at 20/21 because they where good enough regardless of everything else, 3 years late they are near the best in the world. Australia picked somebody like Henshaw at 21 when the team was put under pressure and he has done well for them, Root was 21 when picked. I just don`t quite understand this idea that you must gain experience, yes if there is no place in the team, but otherwise give them a chance. But consistently picking players that don't belong in the team when you have talented youngsters makes no sense to me.