*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[Black_Warrior]

Just to belatedly join the mini-discussion about Duckett on the previous page, I think it was fair enough that he was dropped when he was, as he seemed to be totally out of his depth in the subcontinent. However, I would have strongly considered taking a look at how he did in this current series.

Actually, totally out of his depth may be slightly unfair as he did get one half-century

I always feel like if you're getting guys to make their test debut on away tours, you kinda need to give them a longer grace period. Maintaining the same away/home performance level for established players is tough..imagine making your test debut in conditions you have never played in your life against a quality you have never faced before.


So while dropping Duckett in the India series was the right decision, failures in the full series might have broken him even more, the fact that the 4 test matches were in Bangladesh and India should go in his favour.

 

[weldone]

5 minutes back KP said: "If you look at the top 4 in England's test side now, there are a few positions where I could play left-handed without pads on."

 

[ImpatientLime]

5 minutes back KP said: "If you look at the top 4 in England's test side now, there are a few positions I could play left-handed without pads on."

Now the silly **** has just pulled his calf and got Finch run out as a result.

Classic FIGJAM

 

[SeamUp]

5 minutes back KP said: "If you look at the top 4 in England's test side now, there are a few positions I could play left-handed without pads on."

Whaaaat

 

[SeamUp]

 

[S.Kennedy]

Good news for Westley (478 at 53.11). Hard on Stoneman (761 at 58.54) who must now feel he'll never get an England cap. My theory is it is because Westley bats well with Cook and will break up the left-handed thing at one and two, while Rocky is another lefty. I'd prefer either over Ballance so I'm quite pleased.

 

[marc71178]

The only way Stoneman is coming in is in place of Jennings so it will probably happen sooner rather than later as Hameed needs to regain his form. I doubt it'll make much difference though, all much of a muchness.

 

[wpdavid]

The only way Stoneman is coming in is in place of Jennings so it will probably happen sooner rather than later as Hameed needs to regain his form. I doubt it'll make much difference though, all much of a muchness.

And that's the biggest worry, isn't it. The same could be said about whoever comes in as a quick, with the exception of Woakes, tbf, and certainly whoever the next spinners off the rank are.

 

[Heboric]

And that's the biggest worry, isn't it. The same could be said about whoever comes in as a quick, with the exception of Woakes, tbf, and certainly whoever the next spinners off the rank are.

What happend to Jack Leach ?

 

[grecian]

And that's the biggest worry, isn't it. The same could be said about whoever comes in as a quick, with the exception of Woakes, tbf, and certainly whoever the next spinners off the rank are.

Well, in the end, batsmen-wise it's no real difference to what South Africa and Oz have been going through for awhile, so no reason to be too stressed about it. Fast bowlers, well there's a fair bit of talent around, so not sure you can be too negative about them. I mean awhile ago Woakes may well have been considered one of those "much-of-a-muchness".

Our spin options are obviously appalling. Yet when haven't they been apart from Swann, then you have to go back to Underwood.

It's a wierd and transitory time in Test cricket, we ain't the only one in a bit of turmoil and struggling to put out a consistent side. We're fun to watch when we get it right though, we have our best batsman in my time of watching, the best opening attack, and a pretty good opener, even though on the wane.

 

[wpdavid]

What happend to Jack Leach ?

He's had to remodel his action after he was suspected of chucking last year. I think that's one of the reasons why he wasn't picked to tour Bangladesh and India.

Without checking this season's stats, I think he's been respectable but nowhere near as effective as last season.

 

[wpdavid]

Well, in the end, batsmen-wise it's no real difference to what South Africa and Oz have been going through for awhile, so no reason to be too stressed about it. Fast bowlers, well there's a fair bit of talent around, so not sure you can be too negative about them. I mean awhile ago Woakes may well have been considered one of those "much-of-a-muchness".

Our spin options are obviously appalling. Yet when haven't they been apart from Swann, then you have to go back to Underwood.

It's a wierd and transitory time in Test cricket, we ain't the only one in a bit of turmoil and struggling to put out a consistent side. We're fun to watch when we get it right though, we have our best batsman in my time of watching, the best opening attack, and a pretty good opener, even though on the wane.

I would suggest that Aus and SA have more quality in our top 5 than we do, despite us having 3 talented number 7s in Bairstow, Stokes and Ali.
Maybe you're right about the up & coming quicks, although I don't really know who you're thinking of. You're right that they shouldn't be written off before we've had a proper look at them, so maybe I'll be amazed. Clearly Aus and SA have much better pace options than we do though.

 

[grecian]

I would suggest that Aus and SA have more quality in our top 5 than we do, despite us having 3 talented number 7s in Bairstow, Stokes and Ali.
Maybe you're right about the up & coming quicks, although I don't really know who you're thinking of. You're right that they shouldn't be written off before we've had a proper look at them, so maybe I'll be amazed. Clearly Aus and SA have much better pace options than we do though.

Well, as you say we haven't tried TRJ, Cove or T Curran in Tests so invidious to complain about them yet.If you just take the position they'll be rubbish, then yes, I guess it looks bleak, as most things do with that outlook.

Top 5 or top 7 doesn't matter that much if they're employed primarily to score runs QDK was batting out of the top 5 in the first test this positiong obsession is very odd. Renshaw, Handscomb, Smarsh, Maxwell and Wade were in th Oz top 7 in their last match, don't think the ATG list will shift much with that little lot. Renshaw and Handscomb have potential though I suppose, but no more than a lot of our guys did in similarly Embryonic positions, Ballance for one.

If the oz fast guys get on the pitch they're good.

 

[wpdavid]

Well, as you say we haven't tried TRJ, Cove or T Curran in Tests so invidious to complain about them yet.If you just take the position they'll be rubbish, then yes, I guess it looks bleak, as most things do with that outlook.

Top 5 or top 7 doesn't matter that much if they're employed primarily to score runs QDK was batting out of the top 5 in the first test this positiong obsession is very odd. Renshaw, Handscomb, Smarsh, Maxwell and Wade were in th Oz top 7 in their last match, don't think the ATG list will shift much with that little lot. Renshaw and Handscomb have potential though I suppose, but no more than a lot of our guys did in similarly Embryonic positions, Ballance for one.

If the oz fast guys get on the pitch they're good.

The main reason for my comments on positioning of our middle order batsmen is how they've done when in the top 5 compared to lower down the order. Admittedly without checking the stats, Bairstow's performances seemed way better at 7 than since he's been in the top 5 again. And again, without checking, I think that Ali's average is way better at 7 or 8 than when in the top 5, although he has at least made hundreds in the top order. So it does rather matter, especially as it's been pretty well documented on these pages that Stokes average of the last 18 months has been well below par for a top 6 batter. As for the bowlers, maybe some of the guys you mentioned will come through, although they'll need to step up more than a bit from what their domestic record has shown, Which can happen, I know. But nobody's said they'll be rubbish, just like Mark Wood isn't rubbish; but not quite a test bowler.

But yeah, people will see it differently. Tomatoes and tomaytoes, and all that. Maybe that's why we come here.

 

[grecian]

The main reason for my comments on positioning of our middle order batsmen is how they've done when in the top 5 compared to lower down the order. Admittedly without checking the stats, Bairstow's performances seemed way better at 7 than since he's been in the top 5 again. And again, without checking, I think that Ali's average is way better at 7 or 8 than when in the top 5, although he has at least made hundreds in the top order. So it does rather matter, especially as it's been pretty well documented on these pages that Stokes average of the last 18 months has been well below par for a top 6 batter. As for the bowlers, maybe some of the guys you mentioned will come through, although they'll need to step up more than a bit from what their domestic record has shown, Which can happen, I know. But nobody's said they'll be rubbish, just like Mark Wood isn't rubbish; but not quite a test bowler.

But yeah, people will see it differently. Tomatoes and tomaytoes, and all that. Maybe that's why we come here.

You do seem to be seeing it relentlessly negatively though, yet as you see if that is how you see it fair enough.

 

[honestbharani]

Having 3 good #7s is not really a problem though as long as management makes it clear on whom out of the 3 they want to be the #5 and the #6 in the order, given all 3 are relatively young in international cricket. And they need to be given the confidence to spend more time honing the relevant parts of their game in accordance to that plan.

 

[marc71178]

Having 3 number 7s batting 6, 7 & 8 isn't a major problem. Batting 5, 6 & 7 is IMO.

 

[wpdavid]

You do seem to be seeing it relentlessly negatively though, yet as you see if that is how you see it fair enough.

Really? Maybe I was the only one less than enamoured with our batting at TB. Or the only one who managed to spot that Philander was several classes above our guys. Or perhaps not.
And tbh that's about the extent of my posting in recent times, as life's been too busy. Disappointing that it isn't universally possible to hold a different view without personally criticising those who don't share your viewpoint. Have a nice day.

 

[grecian]

Really? Maybe I was the only one less than enamoured with our batting at TB. Or the only one who managed to spot that Philander was several classes above our guys. Or perhaps not.
And tbh that's about the extent of my posting in recent times, as life's been too busy. Disappointing that it isn't universally possible to hold a different view without personally criticising those who don't share your viewpoint. Have a nice day.

Well you have a nice day too, I admire you as a poster enormously and thought we might have had enough of an online relationship to mention that I felt your comments were seemingly a bit negative. I apologise, as that clearly wasn't the case

 

[honestbharani]

Having 3 number 7s batting 6, 7 & 8 isn't a major problem. Batting 5, 6 & 7 is IMO.

Generally, you would be right. But, I do think at least two of the 3 have the potential to grow into top batsman. That is why I mentioned the bit about them being young in their international careers there. If they were a bit older, I can understand. But AFAIC there is enough time for one of them to be groomed as a #5.