Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

[sledger]

just play a game and once you get to know the charecters you will love it 10 times more since their stats are just perfect for the game. Start with SWF ot TCW these 2 are the Big 2 and some of the main characters are loosely based on real life characters it would allow you to ease in to the game.

Ok, once I've had enough of my current one I'll give it a shot.

 

[GIMH]

Personally, I found the Judgement Day match more memorable because of the return of the Undertaker, and that overshadowed the match itself, that said, I'm not a fan of Ironman matches, simply because they go on for too long and get a bit dull, whoever is involved, in fact I can't recall another 60 minute match being held again since, though for some reason I think there has been....?

Another quite underated match I thought, was X-Pac vs Chris Jericho in a steal cage, which iirc was at No Mercy? I really quite rated Sean Waltman, and although he is a bit of an idiot and a general fail, I thought he was really rather good in the ring, and always rooted for him.

On a side note, the thing I remember most about NWO 2001 was the match between Rock and Angle, when the Big Show interfered (having won the hardcore title earlier in the night), chokeslammed everyone in the ring, including the referee, for no obvious reason, and then having cleaned house just walked out, and the whole thing was never mentioned again....Another interesting part from that match was when Earl Hebner failed to count to three after the Rock rock bottomed Kurt Angle, if you look carefully (although its been semi edited out) you can see the Rock have a go at Hebner before he hits the rock bottom for the second time.

The main thing I loved about the Iron-man match was that through the build-up the whole of the internet was going on about how Rock couldn't pull an hour off, it would be dire etc, etc, and he went and outperformed Triple H. I thought the match had enough about it to keep going for an hour, and UIMM was the last one-on-one Rock-HHH encounter, at least on PPV.

 

[sledger]

The main thing I loved about the Iron-man match was that through the build-up the whole of the internet was going on about how Rock couldn't pull an hour off, it would be dire etc, etc, and he went and outperformed Triple H. I thought the match had enough about it to keep going for an hour, and UIMM was the last one-on-one Rock-HHH encounter, at least on PPV.

I think it was yes....

That said, though I always really really enjoyed HHH/Rock feuds, I personally never felt that they had a really great match, they had plenty of alright matches which were full of exciting twists and turns, run ins and saves etc...but I always enjoyed teh actual feud with Rock chasing the WWF title more exciting and more enjoyable than thematches themselves. Always thought that inexplicably despite being two great performers they always had their better matches with other workers.

 

[GIMH]

Hmm, can't agree with that:

Fully Loaded 98 - 2/3 falls
Summerslam 98 - Ladder Match
Backlash 00
Judgment Day 00 - Iron Man Match

Also, Summerslam 00 - with Angle but he was concussed so the two of them carried a great match

In all honesty it is a travesty that they never main-evented WM00 on their own. Also a travesty that Rock never won the strap at Mania throughout his career, but there you go.

 

[sledger]

Hmm, can't agree with that:

Fully Loaded 98 - 2/3 falls
Summerslam 98 - Ladder Match
Backlash 00
Judgment Day 00 - Iron Man Match

Also, Summerslam 00 - with Angle but he was concussed so the two of them carried a great match

In all honesty it is a travesty that they never main-evented WM00 on their own. Also a travesty that Rock never won the strap at Mania throughout his career, but there you go.

Haha had never thought about the WM fact of Rock never winning a title...but yeah...strange.

Tbh I have always thought that the Rock/HHH ladder match is pretty overated, whilst ok, it's not really memorable for me. I found the Austin/Taker feud much more interesting.

Haven't actually seen the 2/3 falls match so can't comment on that.

I enjoyed the Backlash match, but that again was overshadowed by the fact that Stone Cold came out to make the save, it was not a bad match, but as HHH got injured early on a lot of it was just the Rock fighting off Shane,Vince,Patterson and Brisco over and over, a great memory, and a great ppv in general imo, but not a truly great match.

Had in fact forgotten the Summerslam triple threat, but yes, I would go so far to say that it probably was the best match I saw the two of them ever have, that I can remember anyway.

 

[GIMH]

Well regardless I completely agree that their feuds were immense in terms of chemistry. They were like Jericho & Benoit, played off each other brilliantly. I remember late in 2000 which triple H had a short tweener/face run (before being named as Austin's assassin) he & Rock got teamed up against (I think) Angle & benoit on Smackdown. They cut an amazing promo

"You show to the Rock that you're that damn good"
"Just make sure you bring it"

And then during the match, they had control of their opponents. HHH banged Angle's head on the steps, so Rock would do the same with benoit but harder, ah hope someone remembers this as I haven't explained it well, was awesome anyway.

 

[sledger]

Well regardless I completely agree that their feuds were immense in terms of chemistry. They were like Jericho & Benoit, played off each other brilliantly. I remember late in 2000 which triple H had a short tweener/face run (before being named as Austin's assassin) he & Rock got teamed up against (I think) Angle & benoit on Smackdown. They cut an amazing promo

"You show to the Rock that you're that damn good"
"Just make sure you bring it"

And then during the match, they had control of their opponents. HHH banged Angle's head on the steps, so Rock would do the same with benoit but harder, ah hope someone remembers this as I haven't explained it well, was awesome anyway.

Haha I had forgotten that match in fact, but remember it now, shame that his face run didnt go on for a bit longer at that stage (also remember an awesome promo that Kurt Angle cut with HHH's "son" in a pram, which turned out to be a monkey) as it was good value, and the match he had with Kurt Angle at Unforgiven was actually really quite good, but then again, I suppose they needed their top heel for the Austin saga since Rikishi failed it so badly.

 

[GIMH]

His face turn was good but his heel turn was amazing and shocking, and the interview he did..."you never saw it coming Austin" was just immense. Have never been able to find it on utoob

As an aside. These days you see the likes of Cena (who I like) come out, and they get a pop, and you think, ah yeah, nice pop. Just watching this DVD (NWO 2000) and Rock has just come out, jesus they don't do pops like that anymore do they? The only one I can think of recently was Austin coming out at Mania!

Mind you, the biggest pop I've ever heard must have been for Triple H's return in 2002.

 

[sledger]

His face turn was good but his heel turn was amazing and shocking, and the interview he did..."you never saw it coming Austin" was just immense. Have never been able to find it on utoob

As an aside. These days you see the likes of Cena (who I like) come out, and they get a pop, and you think, ah yeah, nice pop. Just watching this DVD (NWO 2000) and Rock has just come out, jesus they don't do pops like that anymore do they? The only one I can think of recently was Austin coming out at Mania!

Mind you, the biggest pop I've ever heard must have been for Triple H's return in 2002.

Haha funnily enough I was thinking of this the other day, I remember the bit where he said "I looked you right in the eyes, and told you face to face....DON'T.....TRUST....ANYBODY!"....so gun.

As for the pops, yeah I have noticed this as well, last truly loud pop I heard was probably when Cena debuted on RAW in 2005 on the Highlight Reel. Apart from that, I can't think of many similar....maybe when Cena returned at the Royal Rumble last year....

However, I wonder if its something to do with the equipment they use to record the sound at live events, and if they have changed it over the last decade or so. I know that crowds these days are made up of a lot more kids and younger people who perhaps don't quite appreciate how old school crowds would chant etc...but I do think there is possibility that the sound recordings drown out a lot of crowd noise. I mean for example, when I went to see Smackdown last year, the pops for even the lower card guys were really loud, and the pops for the top guys like HHH and Undertaker were absolutely deafening, and the UK crowds always seem really quiet on TV, so it makes me wonder what the US crowds must be like in terms of noise.

But yeah, the loudest pops I can ever remember seeing (in no particular order) are....Stone Cold making the save at Backlash 2000, Chris Jericho's debut in 1999, Stone Cold making the save on RAW in 1999 and helping Mankind win the WWF title....Kane returning and taking out Lance Storm, Christian and Test...and indeed, HHH's return in 2002.

 

[GIMH]

Rock's return in 2001 has gotta be up there as well

Regarding the crowds. I think all of what you say might be on the money, but I also think some of the blame must go to the unfortunate stigma that is attached to being perceived as a mark these days, which mainly stems from absolute wankers on wrestling sites. 'marking out' is not a phrase I am particularly fond of, but whichever way you call it, doing that when watching wrestling makes the product so much more enjoyable IMO.

Take HBK-Taker at Mania. Amazing match. I was on the edge of my seat, out of my seat, jumping up and down, really desperately cheering for HBK! Does this make me a loser of a 'mark'? I don't think so - at the end of the match me and my mate were sad enough to stand up in my living room and applaud HBK & taker for an amazing match - enjoy it while it's happening then reflect afterwards IMO.

PS, I was really drunk when I stood up and clapped, I am not a nugget

 

[sledger]

Rock's return in 2001 has gotta be up there as well

Regarding the crowds. I think all of what you say might be on the money, but I also think some of the blame must go to the unfortunate stigma that is attached to being perceived as a mark these days, which mainly stems from absolute wankers on wrestling sites. 'marking out' is not a phrase I am particularly fond of, but whichever way you call it, doing that when watching wrestling makes the product so much more enjoyable IMO.

Take HBK-Taker at Mania. Amazing match. I was on the edge of my seat, out of my seat, jumping up and down, really desperately cheering for HBK! Does this make me a loser of a 'mark'? I don't think so - at the end of the match me and my mate were sad enough to stand up in my living room and applaud HBK & taker for an amazing match - enjoy it while it's happening then reflect afterwards IMO.

PS, I was really drunk when I stood up and clapped, I am not a nugget

I think there is undoubtedly truth in the mark/smart side of things, but I think it would be too easy to read too much into that. I think a lot of people who consider themselves Smarts or at least those who do not want to be seen as Marks stay away from WWE live events, as they would have everyone believe that WWE is not cool, and anyone who likes it is not a real wrestling fan etc... etc....yadda yadda.

I have no problem with the term "marking out", its these mark out moments that make wrestling great, and is why I like it so much, and why I have liked it for so long, its what wrestling is all about, if you can't appreciate moments or mark out for something then a lot of the appeal of the whole attraction is completely lost. Also there is nothing wrong with being a Mark as long as you don't try and pretend you are anything else, I mean there is nothing worse than someone saying something like "John Cena is better than Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle.....you want proof?! Well....He held the world title longer than anybody!!....he beat Umaga, Great Khali, Shawn Michaels. HHH, Chris Masters, Carlito etc... etc....". That said I can't stand the elitists who rant about how John Cena is crap no matter what and how Bret Hart is teh best wrestlar evar etc..

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, wrt "marking out" it's just the wording I don't like, I do it all the time when watching. Most recently when Triple H returned, I was just like, "holy ****!" and even updated my facebook in accordance with my reaction.

I think it's great when a mark thinks Cena is the best because he's held the title for x months as long as it's a kid who is using those arguments, as that's what it's all about. As an adult wrestling fan, I like to think you can combine marking out with being knowledgeable about the business and knowing what's going on. But I refuse the use the term 'smart' to ever describe myself, or 'smark' as the connotations are of absolute pricks IMO. As masterblaster once said, wrestling forums are chocker full of arrogant people. And I got a warning on one last week for the fact that a post I made wasn't 100% about the title topic - dire.

And yeah, cena-hating is pretty dull. People not liking him is fine (I know not many of you in this thread do), but with some people on the web, if Cena found a cure for cancer they'd say Vince was ******** and that it should have been Edge

 

[sledger]

Yeah, wrt "marking out" it's just the wording I don't like, I do it all the time when watching. Most recently when Triple H returned, I was just like, "holy ****!" and even updated my facebook in accordance with my reaction.

I think it's great when a mark thinks Cena is the best because he's held the title for x months as long as it's a kid who is using those arguments, as that's what it's all about. As an adult wrestling fan, I like to think you can combine marking out with being knowledgeable about the business and knowing what's going on. But I refuse the use the term 'smart' to ever describe myself, or 'smark' as the connotations are of absolute pricks IMO. As masterblaster once said, wrestling forums are chocker full of arrogant people. And I got a warning on one last week for the fact that a post I made wasn't 100% about the title topic - dire.

And yeah, cena-hating is pretty dull. People not liking him is fine (I know not many of you in this thread do), but with some people on the web, if Cena found a cure for cancer they'd say Vince was ******** and that it should have been Edge

Yeah, tbh I may have come across as a bit harsh, I have no probem with people saying it, it's just....well I don't know....in fact I have lost my original point entirely....so will shut up.

 

[GIMH]

should get another 6 months IMO

Triple H-Cactus Jack HIAC, only the 2nd or 3rd time I have ever watched this match, as awesome now as I remembered it. Triple H was amazing back then.

 

[duffer]

Haha actually my first like 7 fights in the game were all against standup guys and I was banging them out with my boxer character, and then in my first fight against a noteable UFC name (Demian Maia) he took me to the ground for the first time and I got my ass kicked and subbed in about 40 seconds. I then made up for that by KO'ing Marquardt three times in a row. Like I said before I knew very little about UFC before playing this game and I didn't know that he was supposed to be some kind of beast IRL. I don't think he ever tried to take me down once. The guys that gave me the most problems early on were the ones who spammed clinches like Rich Franklin and Chieck Kongo, found it highly disruptive and they'd end up beating the snot out of me.

But yeah I quickly learned that being one dimensional in the game was not going to work at all xD. Ended up having the most fun learning BJJ anyway, making people whinge online when you make them tap out is pretty hilarious.

Yeah it's easy to kick the **** out of the strikers but Marquardt just went for the take down every time I got close to him and didn't connect. Very difficult to keep separation when he's always backing you into the side of the cage, irl 15 of his 22 wins came by submission so I knew what to expect but the **** just kept getting under my guard too easily untill I boosted my defence stats big time.

My next career mode I'll start off with a wrestling base. With that it's a whole lot easier to dictate where you want the fight to end up and the striking is a lot easier to master with inferior stats. Couldn't take every take down turning into a ground and pound assault on my face and my submissions were weak as **** so I barely had room to manouever against him.

 

[duffer]

Triple H-Cactus Jack HIAC, only the 2nd or 3rd time I have ever watched this match, as awesome now as I remembered it. Triple H was amazing back then.

Aye, before he tore his pec he was a monster in the ring. Ever since he's become a watered down play it safe shadow of himself. Had so much versatility in his game but became so formulaic.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

But yeah, the loudest pops I can ever remember seeing (in no particular order) are....Stone Cold making the save at Backlash 2000, Chris Jericho's debut in 1999, Stone Cold making the save on RAW in 1999 and helping Mankind win the WWF title....Kane returning and taking out Lance Storm, Christian and Test...and indeed, HHH's return in 2002.

Tazz's debut at the Royal Rumble is the loudest I've ever heard a crowd.

 

[masterblaster]

Aye, before he tore his pec he was a monster in the ring. Ever since he's become a watered down play it safe shadow of himself. Had so much versatility in his game but became so formulaic.

This.

I was a huge fan of Triple H's work from 1999 to 2001. The problem is that he was such a fresh and unique character back then, now he's just really stale because he's been playing the same character for the last decade. Edge has taken over Triple H's mantle as the best heel in modern times with Chris Jericho being a close second.

 

[masterblaster]

Welcome back Sledger!

Glad to have you back around here.

 

[masterblaster]

One thing I can't really stand at the moment is people who really criticise the new ECW just because it's not the same Extreme, revolutionary product that it was in the 90's.

What you have to understand is that time has passed and it's not that day and age anymore where you just go out and shock the hell out of the audience. TNA is learning from this as every time they do something to shock the audience it comes across as cheap, tacky and gimmicky.

Sure the new ECW may not be Extreme or Hardcore but it is living up to the original ECW's legacy by having outstanding wrestling on it week in and week out, giving the young guys in the WWE a chance to shine and not having boring time wasting promos or bad comedy. If you're a wrestling fan, you will enjoy ECW and what it brings which is great wrestling, no crappy segments all in just one hour of television.

While Smackdown maybe the best wrestling show on television at this point, Raw has absolutely nothing on ECW. It may not be Extreme, but it's still a really good show every week.