'Official' Pakistan in West Indies

[GotSpin]

There is a difference between a dangerous pitch and a bad pitch too IMO.

FTR there are many deliveries of spinner that have kicked up extraordinarily. Secondly what about the extremely low bounce in just about every other over where the ball does not even rise a foot above the ground after pitching. Is that not a bad pitch??? Not dangerous but is it not bad???

It's no worse than a pitch that offers no assistance to either spin or pace either.

 

[smash84]

It's no worse than a pitch that offers no assistance to either spin or pace either.

I think you are missing the point that I am trying to make. I pointed out earlier that I am all for bowling pitches but at least they should have consistent bounce. I really like the pitch to have pace and spin.

FTR IMO Test matches ending within 3 days >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Draws on roads

 

[GotSpin]

I think you are missing the point that I am trying to make. I pointed out earlier that I am all for bowling pitches but at least they should have consistent bounce. I really like the pitch to have pace and spin.

FTR IMO Test matches ending within 3 days >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Draws on roads

No I understand your point but I'm saying that the batsmen can just cop it. Not my fault if they have dodgy techniques and can't use their feet to the spinners.

 

[Howe_zat]

This is what ought to be called a "good" pitch.

The main issue with it is that it isn't really suited to the home side that much, despite the scoreline. If it were, it'd be a "very good" pitch.

There's all sorts of weird **** happening and it's more fun that way.

Standing by this.

I'm becoming more convinced that two tiers for test Cricket is the way to go. NZ vs Pak and this test match have been a lot more closer due to teams being evenly matched and I kinda feel this is the way forward.

Pakistan won a brilliant Test last year against Australia. I like the idea too but it's not that simple.

 

[Xuhaib]

yeah smali got it bang on its not the assistance to the bowlers that makes this pitch poor its the inconsistent bounce that is the main issue no harm in having a pitch that seams or spin alot but I would like my pitch to have a regular bounce for most of the game.

 

[Spark]

No I understand your point but I'm saying that the batsmen can just cop it. Not my fault if they have dodgy techniques and can't use their feet to the spinners.

(y)

 

[Xuhaib]

wonder contra wanted the two tiers during the 90's. Test cricket usually run in cycles 10 is the decent limit I feel.Pakistan despite its issues sill won two tests last summer in england not many have done it this decade apart from SA and Aus.

 

[Cevno]

This is a pretty good pitch and is offering swing to the pacers too early and then spin to the spinners.

Don't get why some people rate pitches which just offer seam and bounce to the pacers till the 4th/5th day not deterioriating and turning at all till the last day(where spinners can only play a support role) as good pitches ,but know in this pitch where the roles are reversed and it was turning though (nothing too unplayable) from the first day as a bad pitch?

The last time i checked, Spinners are just as part of the game as pacers and it is good to see a pitch where pacers are playing the support role for a change.

Besides both the team's batsman have been poor and could have done better if they applied themselves on the pitch.

 

[smash84]

No I understand your point but I'm saying that the batsmen can just cop it. Not my fault if they have dodgy techniques and can't use their feet to the spinners.

I don't think even the Indian batsmen (who are easily the best players of spin in the world IMO) would find it at all easy to negotiate deliveries that barely rise above ankle height. The issue is not so much with the pace or the spin that the wicket is taking it is just that the bounce is extremely inconsistent.

I do get the feeling that you and Spark are probably following this on cricinfo. Watching it live on TV would give you a different idea.

Of course the Pak and WI line-ups are incompetent ****s with dodgy techniques but that still does not eliminate the fact that the pitch has extremely variable bounce and is a bad pitch.

Pak played last year in England and got skittled out for less than 80 twice in the same match. Countless times Pak batsmen get out for a low score doesn't mean that the pitch is bad. This time around it really is because the bounce is extremely erratic.

 

[Cevno]

yeah smali got it bang on its not the assistance to the bowlers that makes this pitch poor its the inconsistent bounce that is the main issue no harm in having a pitch that seams or spin alot but I would like my pitch to have a regular bounce for most of the game.

This is like a Traditional 10/20 years back Indian wicket in that regard.

At the start the bounce was more consistent ,though the odd ball kept low but now as the pitch has worn out the bounce is more inconsistent.

The only difference here is that the odd ball is keeping really low ,while there is no real big rough patch out of which the ball is really kicking up and spitting venom so to speak.

It is good to see variations is bounce sometimes too with spin, just like pitches with extra bounce and kick with seam for pacers.

 

[Xuhaib]

yeah you cant just lay all the blame on **** batting even quality batsman like Shiv,Misbah and Sarwan are struggling big time and its the up and down bounce that is the main issue.

 

[Xuhaib]

This is like a Traditional 10/20 years back Indian wicket in that regard.

At the start the bounce was more consistent ,though the odd ball kept low but now as the pitch has worn out the bounce is more inconsistent.

The only difference here is that the odd ball is keeping really low ,while there is no real big rough patch out of which the ball is really kicking up and spitting venom so to speak.

It is good to see variations is bounce sometimes too with spin, just like pitches with extra bounce and kick with seam for pacers.

Ajmal had that going atleast twice every over.

I know this is better then playing on UAE roads but its pretty poor to support this substandard pitch.

 

[Cevno]

I don't think even the Indian batsmen (who are easily the best players of spin in the world IMO) would find it at all easy to negotiate deliveries that barely rise above ankle height. The issue is not so much with the pace or the spin that the wicket is taking it is just that the bounce is extremely inconsistent.

.

Did you see the Delhi - Kochi IPL match?

Sreesanth got two batsman out with the ball crawling on the surface barely.

But then Sehwag played like nothing was wrong with the pitch and scored a 80 odd off 45 balls.

When all the other batsman batted they were struggling with the bounce and doubting themselves while sehwag kept smacking it to all parts.
The pitch was turning too.

This is the match -
36th match: Kochi Tuskers Kerala v Delhi Daredevils at Kochi, Apr 30, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Commentary of Sreesanths first two wickets -

1.1


Sreesanth to Warner, OUT, It's the good Sreesanth first ball, even though it needs some low bounce. Sreesanth bowls short of a length, around middle and leg, and the ball doesn't get up and squeezes under Warner's bat. Off stump gone


1.4


Sreesanth to Ojha, OUT, What do you do Jack? This ball hasn't bounced at all. It's bowled back of a length, Ojha goes back to defend it, but it has almost rolled along the ground, hitting him on the boot. No wonder they use this ground more often for football. Good old surli, as we call it in gully cricket, or how Kapil Dev described Kirti Azad's effort to get Ian Botham in the 1983 World Cup semi-final


Yes it is not easy to bat on these type of pitches just like it wasn't at Durban on a green track when India played South Africa earlier this year.
But it is possible.

 

[Cevno]

Ajmal had that going atleast twice every over.

I know this is better then playing on UAE roads but its pretty poor to support this substandard pitch.

That was hardly spitting bounce ,TBH.

It was more the turn that was troubling the batsman in those than bounce.

There is no clear really worn out rough area on this pitch from which the ball is bouncing to shoulder height sometimes and hitting the batsman's body.

Even if there had been ,i don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Xuhaib]

we can agree to disagree but it was a combination of turn and inconsistent bounce that was troubling the batsman imo.

 

[Cevno]

yeah you cant just lay all the blame on **** batting even quality batsman like Shiv,Misbah and Sarwan are struggling big time and its the up and down bounce that is the main issue.

Most batsman specially in the first innings got beaten by turn rather than beaten by bounce.

Majority of them kept thrusting their pads forward with the wrong technique as i described earlier in this thread for Mohammad Salman and slight turn either way they were goners and plumb LBW's or caught at slip.

Shivnarine Chanderpaul got cleaned up by the doosra leaving a gap between bad and pad rather than the bounce.

And in the second innings it is fair enough to expect inconsistent bounce.

It is pretty much possible to play on this type of wickets if you can cover for spin and read it from the hand.
In fact in India earlier last year Amla showed even how to play from the backfoot on such pitches,even on the fifth day when the pitches wore off and balls started to kick.

 

[Spark]

Most batsman specially in the first innings got beaten by turn rather than beaten by bounce.

Majority of them kept thrusting their pads forward with the wrong technique as i described earlier in this thread for Mohammad Salman and slight turn either way they were goners and plumb LBW's or caught at slip.

Shivnarine Chanderpaul got cleaned up the doosra driving rather than bounce.

And in the second innings it is fair enough to expect inconsistent bounce.

It is pretty much possible to play on this type of wickets if you can cover for spin and read it from the hand.
In fact in India earlier last year Amla showed even how to play from the backfoot on such pitches even on the fifth day when the pitches wore off and balls started to kick.

AWTAz

That and playing balls exclusively from the crease means that if it even keeps a little bit low, you're in deep trouble of getting LBW if you're on the back foot. A lot of those wicket balls, a player who uses their feet would be down the track to and smothering.

 

[Daemon]

No such thing as a bad pitch unless its dangerous or a complete road.

 

[TumTum]

No such thing as a bad pitch unless its dangerous or a complete road.

or has large variable bounce. It's weird though that it only has affected the spinners.

 

[Cevno]

AWTAz

That and playing balls exclusively from the crease means that if it even keeps a little bit low, you're in deep trouble of getting LBW if you're on the back foot. A lot of those wicket balls, a player who uses their feet would be down the track to and smothering.

Amla ,Kallis and Dravid(though he has to go back and forth and plays on the front foot too) the only real ones who can play on the backfoot on such a pitch with balls keeping low and turning.

You need real quick hands,excellent judgement of length plus early reading of the spin on the ball to do so.