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***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2017/18

Zinzan

Zinzan

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Immenso said:
Personally, I'm happy for Latham to continue as middle order ODI player, as I want his woeful gapping to actually improve for the sake of his test game
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Why when it's so painfully obvious that he's such a poor ODI player in NZ conditions, averaging around 20 IIRC, with a poor SR. Clearly he should be picked for ODIs in the SC though, where he averages close to 50 and at a good rate. He's one of the few horses for courses selections that actually makes sense.

There's so much more to like with a player like Phillips, and we have some nice cake anyway with Guptill (who can take slightly less risk with Munro as his partner) and of course Kane and Ross at 3 and 4.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Zinzan said:
Why when it's so painfully obvious that he's such a poor ODI player in NZ conditions, averaging around 20 IIRC, with a poor SR. Clearly he should be picked for ODIs in the SC though, where he averages close to 50 and at a good rate. He's one of the few horses for courses selections that actually makes sense.

There's so much more to like with a player like Phillips, and we have some nice cake anyway with Guptill (who can take slightly less risk with Munro as his partner) and of course Kane and Ross at 3 and 4.
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Agreed. I feel like in ODIs he'd be better suited to batting 3 or 4 - he's not quite quick enough to blast open an innings nor to finish one, but could construct one much int he way Williamson or Taylor does.

Though, IIRC, the times he has batted those positions in ODIs he hasn't excelled
 
S

Slippaah

U19 12th Man
oblongballs said:
Why so much talk of changing the NZ batting line up, considering how well they just did?
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Change is mooted I guess by those who actually watch NZ Domestic cricket matches and know there are quality batting alternatives in the shorter formats . The NZ Coach does not watch Domestic cricket but the 2017/2018 Domestic batting stats make it obvious new blood is on offer which is a welcome luxury in NZ . How recent NZ teams are selected ,in white ball formats, is shrouded in mystery, but cynics suggest it involves 35 year old players standing in the Octagon in Dunedin with their cricket gear hoping for a call up . Positive NZ results v the woeful WINDIES have muddied the selection waters but players who are dropped are advised to go back and dominate Domestic cricket while those who actually dominate at Domestic level miss selection . Some could not even make the recent NZ A tour to India .
 
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BeeGee

BeeGee

International Captain
oblongballs said:
Why so much talk of changing the NZ batting line up, considering how well they just did?
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Latham's a talented batsman, but he hasn't been great at LO cricket in NZ conditions. But even more than that, I'm excited about Phillip's potential and would love to see him given a shot.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Zinzan said:
Why when it's so painfully obvious that he's such a poor ODI player in NZ conditions, averaging around 20 IIRC, with a poor SR. Clearly he should be picked for ODIs in the SC though, where he averages close to 50 and at a good rate. He's one of the few horses for courses selections that actually makes sense.

There's so much more to like with a player like Phillips, and we have some nice cake anyway with Guptill (who can take slightly less risk with Munro as his partner) and of course Kane and Ross at 3 and 4.
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I wasn't making an argument for him in or out, I'm just happy he's getting work experience to improve a clear weakness in his game. ODIs is a format I'm not fussed about, just pointing out the wider benefit of him getting game time in this role.

As for G Phillips, as is being touted by a few. Has he ever batted lower than the top 3 for Auckland? I don't see him as a middle overs nurdler. As for his obvious boundary hitting qualities, I'd have serious doubts, until proven otherwise, about his boundary hitting when the field is spread. Debuting him for the blackcaps in a role he doesn't do at the lower levels would be throwing him in at the deep end.

Genuine question, is he still set up to play everything's leg side? Or has he improved and does he now look like he has a 360 degree game/potential to make a fist of lower order batting?
 
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NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
oblongballs said:
Why so much talk of changing the NZ batting line up, considering how well they just did?
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Because we're heavily reliant on a trio of established batsmen, one of whom will probably retire after the next world cup, and our 'depth' (generally) when one of these three gets injured (or worse, 2) gets greatly exposed as being lacking as the back-ups aren't generally up to it except for bullying lesser sides in home conditions (looking at Broom here).

I imagine going into the '19 WC the blueprint will be similar to the '15 one - except we're still missing a reliable Baz-opener and Grunter-finisher/utility bowler. Even in that tournament, our batting wasn't spectacular, so building on that plan rather than copying it is preferable.

I'm guessing there won't be any massive changes to the side leading up to the WC - it'll probably be Guptill-Munro-Kane-Ross-Latham-Nicholls-thebowlers, but post WC I'd like to see something like Guptill-Phillips-Kane-Latham-Bruce-Chapman-bowlers
 
O

oblongballs

U19 Debutant
NZTailender said:
Because we're heavily reliant on a trio of established batsmen, one of whom will probably retire after the next world cup, and our 'depth' (generally) when one of these three gets injured (or worse, 2) gets greatly exposed as being lacking as the back-ups aren't generally up to it except for bullying lesser sides in home conditions (looking at Broom here).

I imagine going into the '19 WC the blueprint will be similar to the '15 one - except we're still missing a reliable Baz-opener and Grunter-finisher/utility bowler. Even in that tournament, our batting wasn't spectacular, so building on that plan rather than copying it is preferable.

I'm guessing there won't be any massive changes to the side leading up to the WC - it'll probably be Guptill-Munro-Kane-Ross-Latham-Nicholls-thebowlers, but post WC I'd like to see something like Guptill-Phillips-Kane-Latham-Bruce-Chapman-bowlers
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A lot of those guys are in a position to play till 2019, some beyond, so only another 2 batsmen are needed tbf. I think the bowling is a bigger issue. There needs to be players who are better outside of their own conditions.

Anyway, it's still a very good team, let's see what happens tonight.
 
V

vandem

International 12th Man
NZTailender said:
...I imagine going into the '19 WC the blueprint will be similar to the '15 one - except we're still missing a reliable Baz-opener and Grunter-finisher/utility bowler. Even in that tournament, our batting wasn't spectacular, so building on that plan rather than copying it is preferable...
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Munro's bowling could be good enough for 2-4 overs as a 6th bowler. Chapman's bowling could be good enough for 2-4 overs. If I was a NZ selector I'd be looking at both now, as lead-in to the next WC.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
oblongballs said:
A lot of those guys are in a position to play till 2019, some beyond, so only another 2 batsmen are needed tbf. I think the bowling is a bigger issue. There needs to be players who are better outside of their own conditions.

Anyway, it's still a very good team, let's see what happens tonight.
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Never said they weren't, apart from Ross. I'm still not convinced on Nicholls - though he does put in some good performances. Ditto Munro in the 50 over format. It's not like these people should be dropped and replaced immediately after the WC - more that this is the line up we should be aiming for in the time after that.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
vandem said:
Munro's bowling could be good enough for 2-4 overs as a 6th bowler. Chapman's bowling could be good enough for 2-4 overs. If I was a NZ selector I'd be looking at both now, as lead-in to the next WC.
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They should be looking at Chapman but they seem to be a year or so behind the times with players who should be in the setup. Bruce should've played a ODI by now as well.
 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Athlai said:
"stay with your decision... woops I mean overturn"

ffs guys
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And before that:

"There is a spike when it passes the bat...show me another angle...show me another angle...show me the best angle you have...show me another...ok I think it hit the helmet"
 
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