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***Official*** Pakistan in England
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Fusion
Global Moderator
Sigh. Myself and others have posted numerous reasons why we are faulting Hair. I won't repeat them again here. And if you want to continue living in a fantasy world of "Doctrove was equally a driving force behind all this as Hair", be my guest. You're either being naive, or simply grasping for straws in defending Hair.marc71178 said:
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lack of video evidence not a concern - Reid
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/current/story/257970.html
No surprise that he was called a racist... seems like people can throw 'racist' around (which is a serious label) without ever facing repercussions.
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/current/story/257970.html
No surprise that he was called a racist... seems like people can throw 'racist' around (which is a serious label) without ever facing repercussions.
Fusion
Global Moderator
Yeah I hate it when people imply that an umpire can be racist/biased! So disgusting. Ahem:Scaly piscine said:
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showpost.php?p=866642&postcount=1855Scaly piscine said:
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Ah, cricket. Yeah, I remember that. Think we're in serious danger of a game breaking out down in Bristol later!aussie said:
Be interesting to see how young Broad goes; cricinfo reliably informs me he had the lowest ER in our domestic 20/20 comp.
Is there room for Yardy & Dalrymple in the same team? Yer twirlers are often the most effective bowlers in the format.
Holding's take on the issue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
West Indian great defends Pakistan over ball tampering charge
NEW DELHI (AFP) - Legendary West Indian fast bowler Michael Holding wants Pakistan absolved of ball tampering charges, saying "first world hypocrisy" was to blame for cricket's present crisis.
"I have absolute and all sympathy with (Pakistan captain) Inzamam-ul Haq. If you label someone a cheat, please arrive with the evidence," Holding wrote in the latest issue of the respected 'India Today' weekly magazine.
Inzamam stands accused of bringing the game into disrepute after his team refused to take the field in the recent Oval Test match against England in protest at umpires Darrell Hair and Billy Doctrove reporting them for ball tampering.
The umpires later awarded the match to England, the first instance in the 129-year history of Test cricket that a game was forfeited, triggering the biggest upheaval in the sport since the match-fixing row in 2000.
Holding, now a popular and respected television pundit, wrote it was "insensitive" of the umpires, Hair in particular, to penalise Pakistan for ball tampering.
"Most other umpires would have said something to the captain, given the offending team a warning of some kind. Then if the tampering continued, they would have been totally justified in taking action," Holding wrote.
"There is a double standard at work in cricket and this episode has only highlighted it.
"When England used reverse swing to beat the Australians in the 2005 Ashes, everyone said it was great skill. When Pakistan does it, the opposite happens, no one thinks it is great skill. Everyone associates it with skullduggery.
"When bombs go off in Karachi and Colombo everyone wants to go home. When bombs go off in London, no one says anything.
"That is first world hypocrisy and we have to live with it."
Holding said he was astonished that both teams and match referee Mike Procter were willing to resume play on the final day, but the umpires cited rules and insisted the game was already over.
"Being the senior umpire, Hair was probably leading the way in that decision," wrote Holding.
"Today, Hair is being defended in Australia but that is just a matter of friends sticking together, the Aussies defending an Australian umpire.
"Everyone now citing the cricketing law as the absolute and final truth is talking absolute rubbish. Every law has room for flexibility.
"I read a prime example recently in the British press. It said that by law, you can be fined for parking within the yellow lines in England. If you do that to run into a chemist to buy emergency medicines, a sensible policeman would more than likely tell you about the law but it's unlikely a ticket would be forthcoming."
The International Cricket Council's powerful Executive Board, comprising the heads of all 10 Test-playing nations, is due to meet in Dubai on Saturday to discuss the crisis
http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/28082006/3/west-indian-great-defends-pakistan-ball-tampering-charge.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
West Indian great defends Pakistan over ball tampering charge
NEW DELHI (AFP) - Legendary West Indian fast bowler Michael Holding wants Pakistan absolved of ball tampering charges, saying "first world hypocrisy" was to blame for cricket's present crisis.
"I have absolute and all sympathy with (Pakistan captain) Inzamam-ul Haq. If you label someone a cheat, please arrive with the evidence," Holding wrote in the latest issue of the respected 'India Today' weekly magazine.
Inzamam stands accused of bringing the game into disrepute after his team refused to take the field in the recent Oval Test match against England in protest at umpires Darrell Hair and Billy Doctrove reporting them for ball tampering.
The umpires later awarded the match to England, the first instance in the 129-year history of Test cricket that a game was forfeited, triggering the biggest upheaval in the sport since the match-fixing row in 2000.
Holding, now a popular and respected television pundit, wrote it was "insensitive" of the umpires, Hair in particular, to penalise Pakistan for ball tampering.
"Most other umpires would have said something to the captain, given the offending team a warning of some kind. Then if the tampering continued, they would have been totally justified in taking action," Holding wrote.
"There is a double standard at work in cricket and this episode has only highlighted it.
"When England used reverse swing to beat the Australians in the 2005 Ashes, everyone said it was great skill. When Pakistan does it, the opposite happens, no one thinks it is great skill. Everyone associates it with skullduggery.
"When bombs go off in Karachi and Colombo everyone wants to go home. When bombs go off in London, no one says anything.
"That is first world hypocrisy and we have to live with it."
Holding said he was astonished that both teams and match referee Mike Procter were willing to resume play on the final day, but the umpires cited rules and insisted the game was already over.
"Being the senior umpire, Hair was probably leading the way in that decision," wrote Holding.
"Today, Hair is being defended in Australia but that is just a matter of friends sticking together, the Aussies defending an Australian umpire.
"Everyone now citing the cricketing law as the absolute and final truth is talking absolute rubbish. Every law has room for flexibility.
"I read a prime example recently in the British press. It said that by law, you can be fined for parking within the yellow lines in England. If you do that to run into a chemist to buy emergency medicines, a sensible policeman would more than likely tell you about the law but it's unlikely a ticket would be forthcoming."
The International Cricket Council's powerful Executive Board, comprising the heads of all 10 Test-playing nations, is due to meet in Dubai on Saturday to discuss the crisis
http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/28082006/3/west-indian-great-defends-pakistan-ball-tampering-charge.html
http://www.supercricket.co.za/default.asp?id=4812&des=sportstalk
Bob and ball tampering
by Neil Manthorp
Posted on 25 August 2006
You have to admire the Australians for their sense of musketeerism. All for one and one for all. When a sporting colleague comes under fire, they rally around in defence. No matter what the circumstances or the validity of the arguments.
While the majority of the cricket-playing world has expressed its surprise and even dismay at umpire Darrell Hair's actions in penalising Pakistan five runs for ball-tampering and then offering the choice of replacement ball to England's batsmen, Australians have been falling over themselves to defend their countryman.
In some cases, the same people who have known Hair to be cantancerous, stubborn, pig-headed and officious - and have said so - are now praising him for "taking a stand." Nobody, it seems, is bothered much by Hair's lack of evidence. Minor detail.
But perhaps the best example of stabbing wildly in the dark in the hope of making contact with anybody or anything that dares to be critical of anything Australian has been launched by former Aussie captain and former ICC Match Referee Barry Jarman.
A man not known for his quiet tongue or endless patience, Jarman has proudly announced that he 'caught' Bob Woolmer ball-tampering as far back as 1997 when he was in charge of South Africa.
Apparently, it was in a one-day match, in South Africa, against India.
Speaking to the Brisbane Courier-Mail earlier this week, Jarman - who kept the 'tampered' ball as a souvenir having ordered it to be replaced - takes up the story:
"The ball is only 16 overs old, yet one side has been tampered with and you can see where they have run their thumbails down the seam which opens up," Jarman said. "The open seam (which caught the sweat) meant one side was heavier than the other."
Jarman says Woolmer was furious and protested immediately: "They all went beserk, including Bob Woolmer who raced into my office and said 'what's going on?' I said 'your guys are stuffing around with the ball mate.' I told him who it was and he went out with his tail between his legs. I said to him 'if you really want to make something of it I can give it to the press and we'll see what happens then, but I will just give you a warning to cut it out.'
Jarman claims that two South African players later went to his hotel room to apologise.
"I was happy to handle it the way I did because they stopped it and that was what I was trying to do. I felt the more low key I could keep it the best it would be for the game," Jarman says.
Well, fancy that. A man so caring about the game's reputation that he would compromise the job he was being paid to do in order to keep it clean.
By failing to report the incident, Jarman failed in his duty as match referee. Or, perhaps, he wasn't quite sure? But now that he is no longer on the ICC's payroll and a fellow Aussie is copping some flak, Jarman suddenly finds it very easy to tell tales out of school.
"I really admire Darrell Hair for what he's done in England. He is a guy who tells the truth and is suffering for it," Jarman says, all puffy chested. "He is one of the best, an umpire who can lie straight in bed."
And a damn fine, dinkum Aussie, too.
Jarman claims he became suspicious of South Africa's tactics after noticing the ball would be thrown to the same two fielders, no matter where it had been fielded.
"I picked up the binoculars and started watching closer," he told the newspaper. "Even when the bowler fielded the ball he threw it to players specifically designated to mess around with the ball. I saw Allan Donald (who Jarman insists was not one of the players tampering with the ball) all of a sudden start swinging the baIl everywhere on the television and I thought 'hullo what's going on here?'
Any chance Hair thought the same thing during the fourth test between England and Pakistan? 'Hullo, what's going on here? The ball is swinging everywhere! We can't have that!'
For all the hairgel, suncream, vaseline and sugary saliva that has been pasted on the side of balls for a century or more, the first official penalty is imposed on Pakistan without any evidence.
No wonder they're fed up.
Bob and ball tampering
by Neil Manthorp
Posted on 25 August 2006
You have to admire the Australians for their sense of musketeerism. All for one and one for all. When a sporting colleague comes under fire, they rally around in defence. No matter what the circumstances or the validity of the arguments.
While the majority of the cricket-playing world has expressed its surprise and even dismay at umpire Darrell Hair's actions in penalising Pakistan five runs for ball-tampering and then offering the choice of replacement ball to England's batsmen, Australians have been falling over themselves to defend their countryman.
In some cases, the same people who have known Hair to be cantancerous, stubborn, pig-headed and officious - and have said so - are now praising him for "taking a stand." Nobody, it seems, is bothered much by Hair's lack of evidence. Minor detail.
But perhaps the best example of stabbing wildly in the dark in the hope of making contact with anybody or anything that dares to be critical of anything Australian has been launched by former Aussie captain and former ICC Match Referee Barry Jarman.
A man not known for his quiet tongue or endless patience, Jarman has proudly announced that he 'caught' Bob Woolmer ball-tampering as far back as 1997 when he was in charge of South Africa.
Apparently, it was in a one-day match, in South Africa, against India.
Speaking to the Brisbane Courier-Mail earlier this week, Jarman - who kept the 'tampered' ball as a souvenir having ordered it to be replaced - takes up the story:
"The ball is only 16 overs old, yet one side has been tampered with and you can see where they have run their thumbails down the seam which opens up," Jarman said. "The open seam (which caught the sweat) meant one side was heavier than the other."
Jarman says Woolmer was furious and protested immediately: "They all went beserk, including Bob Woolmer who raced into my office and said 'what's going on?' I said 'your guys are stuffing around with the ball mate.' I told him who it was and he went out with his tail between his legs. I said to him 'if you really want to make something of it I can give it to the press and we'll see what happens then, but I will just give you a warning to cut it out.'
Jarman claims that two South African players later went to his hotel room to apologise.
"I was happy to handle it the way I did because they stopped it and that was what I was trying to do. I felt the more low key I could keep it the best it would be for the game," Jarman says.
Well, fancy that. A man so caring about the game's reputation that he would compromise the job he was being paid to do in order to keep it clean.
By failing to report the incident, Jarman failed in his duty as match referee. Or, perhaps, he wasn't quite sure? But now that he is no longer on the ICC's payroll and a fellow Aussie is copping some flak, Jarman suddenly finds it very easy to tell tales out of school.
"I really admire Darrell Hair for what he's done in England. He is a guy who tells the truth and is suffering for it," Jarman says, all puffy chested. "He is one of the best, an umpire who can lie straight in bed."
And a damn fine, dinkum Aussie, too.
Jarman claims he became suspicious of South Africa's tactics after noticing the ball would be thrown to the same two fielders, no matter where it had been fielded.
"I picked up the binoculars and started watching closer," he told the newspaper. "Even when the bowler fielded the ball he threw it to players specifically designated to mess around with the ball. I saw Allan Donald (who Jarman insists was not one of the players tampering with the ball) all of a sudden start swinging the baIl everywhere on the television and I thought 'hullo what's going on here?'
Any chance Hair thought the same thing during the fourth test between England and Pakistan? 'Hullo, what's going on here? The ball is swinging everywhere! We can't have that!'
For all the hairgel, suncream, vaseline and sugary saliva that has been pasted on the side of balls for a century or more, the first official penalty is imposed on Pakistan without any evidence.
No wonder they're fed up.
Woolmer defends reputation
AFP
August 27, 2006
Bob Woolmer can't remember the incident Barry Jarman has talked about
Bob Woolmer, the Pakistan coach, was forced to defend his reputation after it was claimed South African players tampered with the ball when he was in charge of the team 10 years ago.
Woolmer's Pakistan team have been at the centre of the row which began with last weekend's forfeiture of the fourth and final Test, and continued with Darrell Hair's demand for $500,000 to resign in the wake of the uproar.
Now, on the eve of the Twenty20 international against England in Bristol, Woolmer reacted to claims that South African players lifted the seam.
The claims were made by the former ICC match referee Barry Jarman who alleged that during a triangular one-day tournament involving South Africa, Zimbabwe and India in early 1997 a match ball confiscated after just 16 overs - still in Jarman's possession - bears the ravages of tampering by Woolmer's team.
At a loss to recall anything of the sort, Woolmer said: "I just cannot, and do not, understand why Barry Jarman has said this. As far as I'm concerned, it's fiction.
"As far as I know, I don't ever remember a ball being taken off after the 16th over. I surely would have remembered it. I wasn't ball-scratching. I'm the coach. What does he think ... that I teach ball-scratching?"
A mystified Woolmer has even taken the step of contacting the officials in the match he believes is in question - and he reports they are unaware of any wrong-doing. "Go and ask the two umpires in the same game that I'm supposed to have done this," he advised. "They will say that they don't know anything about it."
AFP
August 27, 2006
Bob Woolmer can't remember the incident Barry Jarman has talked about
Bob Woolmer, the Pakistan coach, was forced to defend his reputation after it was claimed South African players tampered with the ball when he was in charge of the team 10 years ago.
Woolmer's Pakistan team have been at the centre of the row which began with last weekend's forfeiture of the fourth and final Test, and continued with Darrell Hair's demand for $500,000 to resign in the wake of the uproar.
Now, on the eve of the Twenty20 international against England in Bristol, Woolmer reacted to claims that South African players lifted the seam.
The claims were made by the former ICC match referee Barry Jarman who alleged that during a triangular one-day tournament involving South Africa, Zimbabwe and India in early 1997 a match ball confiscated after just 16 overs - still in Jarman's possession - bears the ravages of tampering by Woolmer's team.
At a loss to recall anything of the sort, Woolmer said: "I just cannot, and do not, understand why Barry Jarman has said this. As far as I'm concerned, it's fiction.
"As far as I know, I don't ever remember a ball being taken off after the 16th over. I surely would have remembered it. I wasn't ball-scratching. I'm the coach. What does he think ... that I teach ball-scratching?"
A mystified Woolmer has even taken the step of contacting the officials in the match he believes is in question - and he reports they are unaware of any wrong-doing. "Go and ask the two umpires in the same game that I'm supposed to have done this," he advised. "They will say that they don't know anything about it."
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What a completely irrelevant quote, the standard of your debate keeps getting worse - incredible.Fusion said:
Barney Rubble
International Coach
TrescothickBoyBrumby said:
Bell
Strauss
Pietersen
Yardy
Collingwood
Dalrymple
Read
Gough
Broad
Harmison
?
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Bell to open and KP at four, not too sure about that. Knowing are boys they will get stuck in a hole and not have the sheer decency to get themselves out. I would just open with Strauss and Tres, have KP at three, than the Mickey Mouse guys after that, would not play Bell.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
I don't know what you're trying to prove with your link, but the link Fusion gave was completely irrelevant and separate from this debate. So no, I don't think Scaly is suffering from delusional order, and to be honest I think you're completely out of order putting that up .Dasa said: