**Official** Pakistan in Australia Thread

[Mecnun]

Did'nt Warney point razzaq to the pavillion? And did'nt Langer show his bat to the umpire during an appeal for LBW? Are these 2 getting fined too?

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Concerning the follow-on (or lack thereof), it's a possibility Ponting might be doing Cricket Australia a favour by extending the game by several more sessions.

 

[Sehwag309]

Well, the referee is Ranjan Madugalle. He's Sri Lankan, and unless I'm heavily mistaken that's in the subcontinent.

..on the contrary, they genereally tend to favour anyone other than.........

But lets not question his bias here

 

[GotSpin]

Concerning the follow-on (or lack thereof), it's a possibility Ponting might be doing Cricket Australia a favour by extending the game by several more sessions.

if that is the case, that is very sad...

 

[Slow Love™]

What amazes me is that we're supoosed to feel sorry for one group of players when they get fined for supposed offences yet another group get called 'unsportsmanlike' etc if they do the same thing. I don't think there was anything wrong with what Akhtar did the other day, but the current climate of the game suggests that you can't do that sort of thing anymore. I think it's sad, because it takes some of the personality away from the game, but that's the way it is at the moment so........

Yeah, but there's a bloody big difference between being penalized financially, and being called names like "unsportsmanlike". The latter partly goes with the territory of being number one (and the associated air of arrogance), but there's also the fact that some Australian players have transgressed more seriously than some players from other countries, without been fined (Brad Williams, who was all over Ganguly physically, and yelling right in players' faces is an excellent example - McGrath's blowup at Sarwan, while it had a context, was still remarkable for the fact that it wasn't properly actioned).

IMO, these new player conditions are BS, also. I enjoy seeing send-offs and one-upmanship, and I think most of us can all tell when these incidents cross the line. Akhtar yesterday most certainly didn't. Also, it seems like batsmen can get away with all measure of provocation, and bowlers are pounded upon once they retaliate (and in addition, it certainly does you no help to come from the subcontinent, in particular).

I also think the Aussies are a bit rich when they talk about "leaving these incidents on the field, where they belong", when guys like Martyn run to the umpire to complain at the slightest verbal challenge.

Bottom line though, is that we're in agreement that Shoaib's fine was absolute garbage.

 

[Slow Love™]

Well, the referee is Ranjan Madugalle. He's Sri Lankan, and unless I'm heavily mistaken that's in the subcontinent.

This has nothing to do with anything though really. We need to get past these kind of cultural assumptions. It's like when people said Clive Lloyd couldn't be prejudiced against the Indian team because he was black. Which is not to say that he is prejudiced, but what a strange reason to hold up as evidence that he couldn't be!

And without wanting to politicize this thread too much, there's also situations like in the US, where black offenders claim to be brutalized by the NYPD, and the argument that one of the arresting officers was black makes their claims less believable somehow.

Sometimes, when there's a cultural bias in play (how often have we seen Australian players penalized for over-appealing? Didn't we see that when Warne was pushing for the record against Sri Lanka in Australia? What about slow Aussie over-rates???), it's not unusual for people from the same region to be part of the problem.

In addition, this is less important than what happens when somebody outside the subcontinent gets off for similar behaviour. This is not to insist that Madugalle is necessarily biased himself - maybe he's just being extra vigilant. But clearly, there's a pattern of inconsistency among the referees when it comes to some nations in the game.

 

[parttimer]

Personal rivalries and gamesmanship are important to promoting the game why are they trying to undermine this?

On another note to see Ahkter and Sami playing Warne so easily, after Vettori outshined him says Warne could be struggling a bit.

 

[Slow Love™]

Okay why didnt Australa enforce the follow on? Only one reason - batsmen want to get more test runs to their names. Thats selfis IMO when winning the game early should have been the approach to be followed.

Well, it's just another way of winning the game, considering that the Australians are concerned about the ongoing fitness of their bowling attack (for good reason - see the India in Australia series last year for the consequences of injury to our top bowlers). I'm not that fussed about it - it bothered me a lot more in the test against NZ because it appeared there was a real threat of rain playing a decisive part in the game.

There's also the concept that teams like to enforce a follow-on more when the lead is a little more substantially over 200, rather than when it's right on the verge like this was. The major issue with not enforcing the follow-on is you have to figure out when you've set enough of a target to be safe, while still leaving time to bowl the opposition out. Given we're just starting the third day and it's unlikely we'll lose a lot of time due to weather or anything, it doesn't look too dangerous.

But even though this particularly decision is pretty explainable, I do still wonder if we have a bit of a phobia about enforcing follow-ons after that famous defeat at the hands of Laxman and Dravid in Kolkata.

 

[howardj]

Personal rivalries and gamesmanship are important to promoting the game why are they trying to undermine this?
.

I'd agree with that. That 'send-off' by Akhtar was totally harmless. The game is becoming so sterilised nowadays- officious match referees; cliched answers given by the players in interviews etc. I think the sterility creeping into the game is something that authorities need to be mindful of.

 

[Eclipse]

Hayden leave's one go and is bowled by Shoaib.

 

[Sehwag309]

I'd agree with that. That 'send-off' by Akhtar was totally harmless. The game is becoming so sterilised nowadays- officious match referees; cliched answers given by the players in interviews etc. I think the sterility creeping into the game is something that authorities need to be mindful of.

But the thing is only bowlers can do such a thing. Imagine a batsman clapping or raising his bat every time he hits a bowler for a boundary

So I guess, either allow both once in a while or just don't allow it

 

[Slow Love™]

Hayden leave's one go and is bowled by Shoaib.

What a ball that was! I noticed that Akhtar ran right away from Hayden this time - his eyes were on him though. The Shoaib pretty much won this little battle handsomely. It'll be fun to see if Hayden can strike back in the remaining tests.

 

[Slow Love™]

But the thing is only bowlers can do such a thing. Imagine a batsman clapping or raising his bat every time he hits a bowler for a boundary

From memory (from watching the great documentary, "Cricket in the 70's - The Chappell years"), Tony Greig did it to Dennis Lillee and Thommo, in Australia. It was very amusing.

IMO, that kind of display is good for the game. It's fun, and accentuates the personal battle between batsman and bowler. Same applies to Akhtar's hijinks, and people shouldn't fool themselves that Hayden isn't having words with Akhtar over the course of his innings. The authorities should leave this stuff alone, and only intervene when the behaviour goes beyond the pale.

I have similar attitudes to dissent. If a batsman refuses to leave the wicket when given out, or directs aggressive comments towards the umpire, by all means, they should be penalized/suspended. But if they're shaking their heads as they walk off, look surprised, or even if they throw something in the dressing room - I don't think we need formal penalties for that. The players are human beings.

 

[andyc]

IMO, that kind of display is good for the game. It's fun, and accentuates the personal battle between batsman and bowler. Same applies to Akhtar's hijinks, and people shouldn't fool themselves that Hayden isn't having words with Akhtar over the course of his innings. The authorities should leave this stuff alone, and only intervene when the behaviour goes beyond the pale.

I have similar attitudes to dissent. If a batsman refuses to leave the wicket when given out, or directs aggressive comments towards the umpire, by all means, they should be penalized/suspended. But if they're shaking their heads as they walk off, look surprised, or even if they throw something in the dressing room - I don't think we need formal penalties for that. The players are human beings.

Exactly. Some of the most loved cricket memories from the past are based around rivalries. I don't see how Akhtar's actions were any different from Warnie imitating Billy Bowden- just a bit of fun to keep the crowd entertained. If this keeps up, soon players won't be able to celebrate a dismissal at all. By all means, like you said, players should be stopped if it goes way over the top (Lillee and Miandad, for example). The ICC is always saying how it plans to expand to places like America, and to do that surely they need to throw off the reputation of cricket being some boring, strict game that only posh englishman play, but actions like this simply reinforce that reputation.

 

[andyc]

And Langer brings up his half century. Definite Man of the Match

 

[SJS]

The first one hour today was rivetting. Akhtar and Sami provided some of the most aggessive ans sustained hositie fast bowling one has seen for a long time.

On song, this has to be the best fast bowling pair in world cricket today. If only they had better back up bowling.

 

[Sehwag309]

..and those kinda things have become very sensitive now. Now they are seen as racists and what not!

Healthy and humurous rivalry is always good but those kinda things don't happen anymore

 

[Dydl]

Langer could only be MOTM if Australia win. Which is a bit obvious.

 

[Sehwag309]

Langer could only be MOTM if Australia win. Which is a bit obvious.

OR

Kasp'wicz

 

[SJS]

This has nothing to do with anything though really. We need to get past these kind of cultural assumptions. It's like when people said Clive Lloyd couldn't be prejudiced against the Indian team because he was black. Which is not to say that he is prejudiced, but what a strange reason to hold up as evidence that he couldn't be!

And without wanting to politicize this thread too much, there's also situations like in the US, where black offenders claim to be brutalized by the NYPD, and the argument that one of the arresting officers was black makes their claims less believable somehow.

Sometimes, when there's a cultural bias in play (how often have we seen Australian players penalized for over-appealing? Didn't we see that when Warne was pushing for the record against Sri Lanka in Australia? What about slow Aussie over-rates???), it's not unusual for people from the same region to be part of the problem.

In addition, this is less important than what happens when somebody outside the subcontinent gets off for similar behaviour. This is not to insist that Madugalle is necessarily biased himself - maybe he's just being extra vigilant. But clearly, there's a pattern of inconsistency among the referees when it comes to some nations in the game.

Very well said !