**Official** Pakistan and England in the UAE 2015/16

[Spark]

Nope

- Azar, Younis, the top order apart from Hafeez were all out on the first day
- Misbah was caught behind of Southee early
- Hafeez was out slogging, sure, but he'd already made the small matter of 197 runs. By that stage they were 5 down.
- I'll give you Shafiq. Poor shot
- Sarfraz "that's the way he plays" Ahmed was actually out defending. 7 down, tail slogs out. Not exactly a novelty.

I kinda get what you're saying and they were freak circumstances, but it wasn't a freak outcome or performance.

This has absolutely zero relevance to this discussion.

And Misbah was caught behind throwing his hands at a wide ball to Southee. Y'know, exactly the sort of dismissal you didn't expect from Misbah that year. So as I said: all slogs and wild hacks outside off stump.

 

[OverratedSanity]

This Pakistan don't tend to do that, though. It was absolutely out of character for them in that particular period in time, where calmness and solidity was their stock in trade, and there was a perfectly obvious and comprehensible reason why A led to B. Particularly if you watched it live.

Again: I don't think you can say that a collapse here is any more or less likely because they collapsed there because the circumstances which precipitated that collapse were so unique. There's just no correlation.

They absolutely do. Check out some of their collapses vs Herath (admittedly way better bowler than Craig) . They had one in SL which was even worse than the NZ one. They're less frequent these days but they still happen.

 

[Niall]

Plenty of cricketing conclusions:
- Pak batting lineup has one or two heroes and a **** ton of passengers
- their tail is extremely weak
- Mark Craig enjoys bounce, which this pitch had a bit of
- McCullum playing freely is nasty. It's not like it didn't happen again in a couple of months
- KW is god
- Zulfiqur and Rahat's fitness is questionable, and when they're being smashed all over the park they don't adjust well
- the NZ bowlers, having made the adjustments in the second test, made an easy job of it with plenty of runs behind them.

I'm not saying that the emotion of the situation didn't have an impact. But all of the above is quite in line with what we know about the players/sides involved.

Babar despite been 200 is very inexperienced at international level so like many others once you get the measure of him you can get on top of him, he had unproductive tests previously, but that was the first time he was trashed and he had no comeback. The opening bowlers were pretty poor as well, Rahat started slowly and Talha was dire the whole game. Heck I find it surprising so few Pakistan fans look back at that test and don't focus so much on his inclusion and that of Masood, both absolute passengers.

Don't think Hafeez was really meant to be bowling that test either as he came on so late, but Mc Cullum had totally switched on when he and even Yasir came onto bowl, that neither could stop him.

 

[hendrix]

This has absolutely zero relevance to this discussion.

they'd lost the top order and didn't actually have all that much batting to come, therefore a collapse was always a chance once Misbah was out early.

Apologies for leaving the logic unexplained.

 

[Spark]

They absolutely do. Check out some of their collapses vs Herath (admittedly way better bowler than Craig) . They had one in SL which was even worse than the NZ one. They're less frequent these days but they still happen.

Mm, but as you say, that's Herath. A bit different when it's against a world class spinner who specialises in causing exactly this.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Again: I don't think you can say that a collapse here is any more or less likely because they collapsed there because the circumstances which precipitated that collapse were so unique. There's just no correlation.

We don't disagree on this

 

[Spark]

We don't disagree on this

Then my job here is done

 

[Black_Warrior]

You are joking, right? You actually think that 2nd day collapse was the primarily the result of normal cricketing processes?

That isn't how those batsmen got out at all. The majority of those wickets were brainless slogs and loose thrashes miles outside of off stump. As you'd expect from a batting lineup which isn't mentally switched on at all - and it's a hell of a lot easier to mindlessly bowl than it is to mindlessly bat...

Ok here's the thing. I agree with you that any side which was batting at that time was probably susceptible to a collapse like that in those circumstances.

My point is, 351 was still a decent total which if thy had bowled well and used the conditions conducive to their strengths, they could have defended. They were mentally out, in my view because of exhaustion and lack of experience playing 5 match series.

 

[Niall]

Where do I need to move to to so I can watch this?

Oh and Masood ahead of Shezhad, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Spark]

Ok here's the thing. I agree with you that any side which was batting at that time was probably susceptible to a collapse like that in those circumstances.

My point is, 351 was still a decent total which if thy had bowled well and used the conditions conducive to their strengths, they could have defended. They were mentally out, in my view because of exhaustion and lack of experience playing 5 match series.

How one defends against McCullum and KW in that sort of mood I genuinely do not know. Pakistan were obviously flattened, but that wasn't what I was focussing on at the time.

EDIT: Anyway, Anderson is reversing it, so probably let's slowly move the discussion back to that.

 

[Compton]

Just caught up. What does James Taylor have to do to get picked?

Would have him in before Bell or Bairstow.

 

[hendrix]

why is there no CW commentary?

 

[Spark]

why is there no CW commentary?

Because Cribb is being intransigent (and I'm actually extremely tired)

 

[Black_Warrior]

A good piece on the history and context of England-Pakistan cricket rivalry, which in my view is the single most underrated cricketing rivalries in the world (mainly because England fans can't see anything beyond the Ashes )

https://adomesticghost.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/doosra-detente-where-next-for-england-and-pakistan/

 

[hendrix]

Because Cribb is being intransigent (and I'm actually extremely tired)

nice word. had to google.

 

[Niall]

If you were a NZ/AUS/ENG bowler, you got to be tempted to do a Rohit Sharma and ask Hafeez to wait until he visits their respective countries.:

 

[Black_Warrior]

If you were a NZ/AUS/ENG bowler, you got to be tempted to do a Rohit Sharma and ask Hafeez to wait until he visits their respective countries.:

 

[Spark]

Good catch but geez that's a waste.

EDIT: Oh Stuart...

 

[GIMH]

Boy did we need that...but that's tight

 

[Black_Warrior]

And just as I had said about Malik.. he is never really set..