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***Official*** New Zealand tour of Zimbabwe and South Africa 2016

Moss

International Captain
nah can't blame Baz for this...

it's on the bowlers. And the coaching staff. And KW.
Not blaming him, but the phrases "trying too hard" and "looking for the magic ball" have now become cliche when describing the new ball bowling efforts for a while now. Wondering if it's become so ingrained, it'll take it's time to get sorted out.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Not blaming him, but the phrases "trying too hard" and "looking for the magic ball" have now become cliche when describing the new ball bowling efforts for a while now. Wondering if it's become so ingrained, it'll take it's time to get sorted out.
yeah I get what you're saying. The "that's what's great about this team" and "someone stands up at the right time" and all the feel-goodery...it comes out of Southee's mouth a lot, and it does sound a lot like Baz.

But that's getting a bit too Kippaxian for me.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Been commented on already :) People either shortening to stphn or just using stephen!

Have been surprised at how negative everybody was over the SA side. SA was not going to just turn into a terrible cricketing nation overnight. We had a really bad year last year, but if you look at it in context, we went to India and were given absolute rank turners (having just lost Kallis and Smith), Amla had his worst year in ten years (after getting captaincy!) And we lost most of our front line bowlers to injury... our confidence was shot coming into a series against an England team playing well. We still had batting issues and our front line bowlers were still missing (I can`t see Stokes doing what he did against the experience of Steyn and Morkel).
Now you can see Amla back in form, a little more confidence in the batting coming out, a proper opener in Cook. Faf and Duminy showing some form and our frontline seamers available and suddenly we are not the terrible cricket nation. If we had a really good quality allrounder then I could see SA getting back to number 1 quickly, right now we struggling to balance the team.

LO team is crap (not that I`m that worried to be honest) I would like us to go ahead pick a few allrounders in the team (Pretorius, Morris, Parnell, Wiese, Andile whoever) and just give everybody a license to go out and score runs, only need 1 off Hash, QDK, or AB to come off to get a good LO total. With Rabada, Morkel and Tahir as primary bowlers.
Still think South Africa's batting looks fairly rubbish tbh.

They'll be carried by their bowling attack, I think they've got a 7.5/10 side when everyone's fit but they lack depth.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Wags now the top ranked NZ bowler at 9th.

Boult is 10th and Southee 15th.
Ugh, it seems like an age ago that Boult was ranked behind only Steyn. That damn back of his. Great for Wags though. Have come to really enjoy watching him load himself into a cannon and firing himself at a brick wall over and over until it cracks.
 

OverratedSanity

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Still think South Africa's batting looks fairly rubbish tbh.

They'll be carried by their bowling attack, I think they've got a 7.5/10 side when everyone's fit but they lack depth.
They're like England, really. Lots of question marks in their top and middle order but they've got good depth all the way down to 7 and 8. Extremely dependant on their strike bowlers.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
They're like England, really. Lots of question marks in their top and middle order but they've got good depth all the way down to 7 and 8. Extremely dependant on their strike bowlers.
They're not really as exaggerated on that front though. Having Philander and Rabada at 8 and 9 is useful but it's nothing compared to having Moeen and Woakes there, which England would at full strength at the moment. On the flip side, South Africa's weak top order players aren't really as bad as England's... Duminy aside (who is realistically only in for injury at the moment), all South Africa's top six batsmen average at least high 30s. It's a similar dynamic but South Africa are much closer to having an orthodox batting lineup IMO.
 

DriveClub

International Regular
Saffers top/middle order is wayyyy more stronger than englands and a bowling attack of steyn/vern/rabada/morkel is wayyy more stronger than anything england could put out. England just have great icing but that doesn't make them equally good as sa.
 

OverratedSanity

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They're not really as exaggerated on that front though. Having Philander and Rabada at 8 and 9 is useful but it's nothing compared to having Moeen and Woakes there, which England would at full strength at the moment. On the flip side, South Africa's weak top order players aren't really as bad as England's... Duminy aside (who is realistically only in for injury at the moment), all South Africa's top six batsmen average at least high 30s. It's a similar dynamic but South Africa are much closer to having an orthodox batting lineup IMO.
Oh you know what I mean. I didn't say they were identical.
 

Burgey

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He didn't know what you meant though. You need to be clearer about these important things.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Steyn/Vern/Rabada is stronger than Anderson/Broad/Woakes but it isn't waayyyy stronger considering England will have a good 4th seamer in Stokes and SA don't have a 5th bowler.
 

Marius

International Debutant
Still think South Africa's batting looks fairly rubbish tbh.

They'll be carried by their bowling attack, I think they've got a 7.5/10 side when everyone's fit but they lack depth.
They're not really as exaggerated on that front though. Having Philander and Rabada at 8 and 9 is useful but it's nothing compared to having Moeen and Woakes there, which England would at full strength at the moment. On the flip side, South Africa's weak top order players aren't really as bad as England's... Duminy aside (who is realistically only in for injury at the moment), all South Africa's top six batsmen average at least high 30s. It's a similar dynamic but South Africa are much closer to having an orthodox batting lineup IMO.
Yeah, when AB is back I think we have a fairly solid top 7. In Ab and Amla you have two ATGs. With Cook and Elgar solid pair of openers, nothing flashy but that's what we need right now. With QDK at seven we have another Gilchrist potentially, and Faf and Bra T are both solid, can't go too wrong with them in your side. Faf is probably the most vulnerable right now, but he deserves to be in the side again, I think.

Only issue is that apart from Elgar there isn't really anyone who can give you a couple of overs as a fifth bowler. England has an advantage over us in that area.

Is Faf's back still crocked? He used to bowl decent leggies.
 

Marius

International Debutant
Steyn/Vern/Rabada is stronger than Anderson/Broad/Woakes but it isn't waayyyy stronger considering England will have a good 4th seamer in Stokes and SA don't have a 5th bowler.
How do you rate Moeen vs Piedt, in bowling terms?
 

Tec15

First Class Debutant
South Africa obviously need players of the class of Hales and Vince to stiffen their weak batting line up.:dry:
 

91Jmay

International Coach
How do you rate Moeen vs Piedt, in bowling terms?
Piedt is for sure better, but I don't think either team wants to have to rely on their spinner for an extended period.

Saffers batting line up is better than Englands, but think it is a stretch to claim the SA Cook is solidified himself in any way.
 
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Marius

International Debutant
Piedt is for sure better, but I don't think either team wants to have to rely on their spinner for an extended period.
Yeah, I agree.

Who is waiting in the wings for England if Moeen is out, apart from Rashid?

In SA we are looking pretty good in terms of spin, we have Shamsi, Harmer, and a couple of younger guys, like Linde and Maharaj coming through.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
I don't think Harmer is up to much, but Shamsi could be a really interesting one. Potential difference maker. England don't have many options though. Someone like Zafar Ansari would be more like for like with Moeen as he is a good batsmen and probably bowls less pies than Mo. Rashid as well good bat and developing ok as a spinner.

Then you have talented young players who are too green at the moment like Mason Crane or Josh Poysden.
 

Zinzan

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Lol, can't we put this thread out of it's ****** misery already.

I heard some people are still sore....
 
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91Jmay

International Coach
To be fair though, looking at Bavuma, Elgar and Cook those are three players not exactly nailed on are they? One guy with 3 Tests who looked a bit found out this series at times, one guy averaging mid 30s and another who looks the business but has had an odd career of great looking not outs and low scores thus far.

I also think Faf is pretty overrated in general, although is clearly a solid player.
 

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