*Official* New Zealand tour of Sri Lanka 2019

[morgieb]

His stats in Sri Lanka prior to this were pretty good. Low 20s or even high teens I think. That was during his purple patch as a test bowler though, I think.

Yeah that was kind of my point, that was a good 7 years ago now IIRC. I'm talking about the last 4-5 years where he's averaging around low-20's at home but mid 40's away from it.

 

[NZTailender]

Sri Lanka are the new Pakistan

Sorry but I trade marked that a while ago

 

[SteveNZ]

I'll play the devil's advocate here, Santner should be persisted with for couple more series. He hasn't played long format cricket in a while. If he can't do it in couple more series it will be time to get someone else in. Somerville looking good to play another 2-3 years. Over in Aussie he will be very handy with his height. Plenty of positives still, Ajaz, BJ, Taylor, Somerville had very good match meanwhile Nicolls, Raval had decent outing. I think this team is good to beat SL and has enough batting/bowling prowess to challenge SL but with their tail up our lads need to play outstanding cricket to pluck a win.

I don't disagree, but he's got to offer something with the bat if we're going to hold him and nurse him through. With Ajaz clearly a better bowler than him, and de Grandhomme clearly a better batsman than him (and also able to be a parsimonious option) we'd need to be sure we're getting a huge upside soon. And I'm not sure we are. Ajaz is 30, he's got a few more good years in him, we don't play 2 spinners at home nor do we generally in away tours outside the subcontinent. To me, Santner has to show at domestic level and in his ODI efforts that he's a good enough batsman to average 30-35 plus to be considered - for what is otherwise de Grandhomme/some other all-rounder's spot.

 

[nzfan]

I don't disagree, but he's got to offer something with the bat if we're going to hold him and nurse him through. With Ajaz clearly a better bowler than him, and de Grandhomme clearly a better batsman than him (and also able to be a parsimonious option) we'd need to be sure we're getting a huge upside soon. And I'm not sure we are. Ajaz is 30, he's got a few more good years in him, we don't play 2 spinners at home nor do we generally in away tours outside the subcontinent. To me, Santner has to show at domestic level and in his ODI efforts that he's a good enough batsman to average 30-35 plus to be considered - for what is otherwise de Grandhomme/some other all-rounder's spot.

CDG is definitely a good player no doubt but from what I know he averages 10 outside of New Zealand. Besides he may have been really struggling in the nets, who knows? It's not rocket science what pitch is going to look like the next match. It's either a flat track or a rank turner. Likely the later given the test championship points. Given CDG's inability against spin, what are the chances he's going to outbowl Santner?

We look at Somerville and go he's picked up wickets but remember how he picked up wickets in the first inning. Similarly Ajaz picked at least 2 or 3 of them thanks to some not so good batting by SL. Did good balls folks out or they threw their wickets? I watched every ball of the test match (bloody hell it's costed me $18 for fan pass for a week) and safely say Somerville's first inning wickets were literally gifts. He bowled extremely well in the second dig though. Santner didn't bowl half trackers or full tosses but put very less revs in the first inning and was turning in the second inning but was a bit too wider and bowling lots to left handers. If all of these are taken into account either BCs are going to stick with Santner or bring in Tastle. Doubt if they are going to go for CDG and if they do that should be in place of Southee rather than Santner.

 

[Maximas]

We look at Somerville and go he's picked up wickets but remember how he picked up wickets in the first inning. Similarly Ajaz picked at least 2 or 3 of them thanks to some not so good batting by SL. Did good balls folks out or they threw their wickets? .

Could say much the same for the SL spinners tbh

Was a much better batting track than the scoreline suggested IMO

 

[straw man]

Santner looked a better bowler than Patel in the 2nd dig but didn't pick up anything. Thing is, he fell back on ODI darts a few too many times when he was looking likely.

Mmm though this is largely because Ajaz didn't bowl as well second innings as he did the first (and SL's left handers found a way to reduce their risk against him). Ultimately, Santner took zero wickets and didn't look particularly likely imo, and we're one nil down in the series. De Grandhomme would also be unlikely to take wickets but should contribute more and faster with the bat.

I don't disagree, but he's got to offer something with the bat if we're going to hold him and nurse him through. With Ajaz clearly a better bowler than him, and de Grandhomme clearly a better batsman than him (and also able to be a parsimonious option) we'd need to be sure we're getting a huge upside soon. And I'm not sure we are. Ajaz is 30, he's got a few more good years in him, we don't play 2 spinners at home nor do we generally in away tours outside the subcontinent. To me, Santner has to show at domestic level and in his ODI efforts that he's a good enough batsman to average 30-35 plus to be considered - for what is otherwise de Grandhomme/some other all-rounder's spot.

Tight part-time spinner who can bat well is still a useful role in NZ conditions, but agree the emphasis is on the 'who bats well' part and he needs to show more improvement there. His batting has improved slightly, at most, since test debut and at the same time opposition bowlers have learned about clear weaknesses (e.g. right arm around the wicket, attack the stumps). Time to get back on track by puting up a good numbers in a season of domestic cricket like Neesham did.

 

[nzfan]

No comments about Santner batting though, if he's going to bat a no.7 he needs to score. Is he a good enough player vs spin? I don't know as he's not batted heaps for us to watch or I haven't noticed him bat much so hard to say. No doubt he needs to play first class cricket to learn the art of bowling in longer format and batting with patience but when is he ever going to? He's generally busy with the white ball cricket and now likely T20 leagues around the world. What sort of competition he has in white ball in NZ cricket really? None...If he's not playing white ball cricket then he will get full first class season and that will help him likely. I can't see any competition for him in first white ball cricket in NZ unless the Ravindra kid scores lots of runs and takes lots of wickets. Maybe Theo van Woerkom come to some sort of form and displace Santner. Till then nothing wrong playing him but likely at no.9 Can't see him batting at no.7, like one said above serious nosebleed.

CDG scored 63 runs vs Pakistan in Dubai but picked up few wickets from memory. Not lots but just about wicket an inning for not much.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Most of Southee's recent form has come at home, no? Not that surprising he'd struggle in these conditions.

Yeah but I’d still expect him to be putting them down a bit faster than 130.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, Southee's deterioration into a medium pacer is the most worrying thing about his form. You can go back and read the thread from the 2012 tour - Southee was consistently operating in the 140-145 range during his opening spells in that series. Seeing him struggling to hit 130 in the recent world cup was an alarming sign.

 

[Athlai]

Was it alarming? He’s been like that for two or three years at least

 

[SteveNZ]

CDG is definitely a good player no doubt but from what I know he averages 10 outside of New Zealand. Besides he may have been really struggling in the nets, who knows? It's not rocket science what pitch is going to look like the next match. It's either a flat track or a rank turner. Likely the later given the test championship points. Given CDG's inability against spin, what are the chances he's going to outbowl Santner?

We look at Somerville and go he's picked up wickets but remember how he picked up wickets in the first inning. Similarly Ajaz picked at least 2 or 3 of them thanks to some not so good batting by SL. Did good balls folks out or they threw their wickets? I watched every ball of the test match (bloody hell it's costed me $18 for fan pass for a week) and safely say Somerville's first inning wickets were literally gifts. He bowled extremely well in the second dig though. Santner didn't bowl half trackers or full tosses but put very less revs in the first inning and was turning in the second inning but was a bit too wider and bowling lots to left handers. If all of these are taken into account either BCs are going to stick with Santner or bring in Tastle. Doubt if they are going to go for CDG and if they do that should be in place of Southee rather than Santner.

I actually think CDG would go OK against Sri Lanka's attack. Unless I missed something, they didn't have a lot of mystery about them and were susceptible to being hit and having feet used against them, as Ross did well in the first innings. Colin isn't a bad player of spin, he's a bad player of world class spin. I don't see any in Sri Lanka's side.

But mentioning him was more with a view to the home summer, and I can't see Santner being of any value v England and in Australia.

 

[Prince EWS]

Unless he's done some serious work I think Akila will have CdG for breakfast. I agree he'd have no dramas against the other bowlers though.

 

[Prince EWS]

But mentioning him was more with a view to the home summer, and I can't see Santner being of any value v England and in Australia.

On this, I'm sure that was the plan already, even before the first Test here. CdG is invaluable at home; one of the first picked.

Santner is competing against the other spinners for a place there, and batting only gets him so far, especially if he's not actually making any runs. CdG actually kind of helps him in that the spinner is probably going to be the fifth bowler given how effective Colin's bowling is at home, so batting becomes slightly more relevant.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

. I can't see any competition for him in first white ball cricket in NZ unless the Ravindra kid scores lots of runs and takes lots of wickets. Maybe Theo van Woerkom come to some sort of form and displace Santner. Till then nothing wrong playing him but likely at no.9 Can't see him batting at no.7, like one said above serious nosebleed.

When does Michael Rippon qualify? He'd be the best ODI replacement for Santa if a change was made.

 

[Kippax]

Was it alarming? He’s been like that for two or three years at least

Yeah it's not so alarming really. Probably just another NZ hinterland boy who figures he's got enough money in the bank to open a country pub or run some cattle semi-independently of his dad's.

Those urbanites fresh out of their broadcasting school indoctrination camps just keep getting worse and sucking any joy out of it too don't they, sticking endless cameras and microphones in front of you and advising you that any former participant of Alex Hepburn and Joe Clarke ***ual conquest games, in fact anyone who would say the once enjoyed the sad and pathetic input of a Southee, a Howsie or a Kuggs, you all better start demoting yourselves to the backwoods with your own poor standard of play, or else start dolefully swimming between those ever-narrowing flags of permissible speech and decorum. This is all starting to take its toll on the discipline and the sustained drive towards limelight and stardom for NZ's hinterland cricketers the most.

 

[SteveNZ]

Unless he's done some serious work I think Akila will have CdG for breakfast. I agree he'd have no dramas against the other bowlers though.

Did I miss something with Akila? He seemed to have an off-break and a leg-spinner's googly, all of which were very easy to pick...he's very short, and didn't seem to drift it overly much.

 

[Flem274*]

going back a bit, i disagree with nzfan(?) i think it was who doesn't want rachin opening. boi is an opener, wants to open and also wants to be a frontline spinner. that is ****ing valuable. good openers are rare in current test cricket and especially in recent nz decades. we should be running with 'opening batsman plus spinner' until proven otherwise. it's not like he will need to bowl much on modern nz pitches either.

i didn't realise southee was averaging mid-40s away from home recently. we've had some punishing away decks in the uae etc but that didn't stop boult. i'm hoping ferguson, henry and a couple of younger ones all looming in his mirror will push him to regain his 2012-2014 best, ruthlessly bowling in the channel at 135-145kph with good variations, a bouncer that actually worked and both reverse and conventional swing.

he's slowly falling into a peter siddle impersonation which is fine for a 3rd seamer but for the attack leader he once was it's disappointing.

still a very worthwhile pick at home.

 

[Moss]

going back a bit, i disagree with nzfan(?) i think it was who doesn't want rachin opening. boi is an opener, wants to open and also wants to be a frontline spinner. that is ****ing valuable. good openers are rare in current test cricket and especially in recent nz decades. we should be running with 'opening batsman plus spinner' until proven otherwise. it's not like he will need to bowl much on modern nz pitches either.

i didn't realise southee was averaging mid-40s away from home recently. we've had some punishing away decks in the uae etc but that didn't stop boult. i'm hoping ferguson, henry and a couple of younger ones all looming in his mirror will push him to regain his 2012-2014 best, ruthlessly bowling in the channel at 135-145kph with good variations, a bouncer that actually worked and both reverse and conventional swing.

he's slowly falling into a peter siddle impersonation which is fine for a 3rd seamer but for the attack leader he once was it's disappointing.

still a very worthwhile pick at home.

I think Southee's previous record in Lanka and the fact that he acquitted himself well in the decider in the UAE (having surrendered the 2nd quick bowling spot to Wagner in the first two) meant he was always going to be first choice. But yeah, hasn't looked anywhere close to his 2012-2014 peak away from home. Must be really tempting to bring in Wagner for the P Sara especially if there's decent pace and bounce as there usually is.

I'm all for Rachin as opener first and spinner second but he really needs some game time in that position with Wellington. The current regime won't bring in anyone without a proven first class track record (Will Young has been talked of as a prospect for at least 4 years now). Wonder if the fact that these series are part of a championship now, might actually cause the selection panel to be less risk-averse.

 

[Maximas]

Did I miss something with Akila? He seemed to have an off-break and a leg-spinner's googly, all of which were very easy to pick...he's very short, and didn't seem to drift it overly much.

Gives it a decent rip, is quite accurate and varies his flight well, the best spinners have a very simple method, Ajay was much the same

 

[SteveNZ]

going back a bit, i disagree with nzfan(?) i think it was who doesn't want rachin opening. boi is an opener, wants to open and also wants to be a frontline spinner. that is ****ing valuable. good openers are rare in current test cricket and especially in recent nz decades. we should be running with 'opening batsman plus spinner' until proven otherwise. it's not like he will need to bowl much on modern nz pitches either.

i didn't realise southee was averaging mid-40s away from home recently. we've had some punishing away decks in the uae etc but that didn't stop boult. i'm hoping ferguson, henry and a couple of younger ones all looming in his mirror will push him to regain his 2012-2014 best, ruthlessly bowling in the channel at 135-145kph with good variations, a bouncer that actually worked and both reverse and conventional swing.

he's slowly falling into a peter siddle impersonation which is fine for a 3rd seamer but for the attack leader he once was it's disappointing.

still a very worthwhile pick at home.

Tough to want to write off someone at 30 but Southee, I'd be prepared to. He just has no zip anymore. He's a million miles off someone like Siddle, who still hits the deck and gets movement that troubles good players, and in the right conditions is potential dynamite.

It's Matt Henry's spot if he wants to be good enough, which he certainly hinted at during the World Cup. But equally, I'd like Kyle Jamieson to push for that spot too. Lockie I feel like is better left as a limited overs player for now.