***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe & Zimbabwe/New Zealand/India ODI Tri-Series

[Tim]

Yes, thats right Scaly..we'll just pull another fast bowler from our large production line.

Tuffey has been injured & out of form so I can't see what NZ would gain from him when he's better off going to Sri Lanka and playing a few 'A' games to get his fitness and form back.

Martin is the exception for NZ when it comes to tail end batting..just about every other NZ bowler can bat. Martin is just one of those who'll never get it.

Its all very well to come on here and start trashing our bowlers, but when you've got jot all to select from there's not much you can do.

 

[AndrewM]

Of course there's no one else with any experience because they haven't picked them in the first place, consistently selecting someone who's old and rubbish will just mean NZ will continue to be useless in the present and the future. If NZ pick a 20-21 year old instead at least they could pay dividends in the future - Martin in 5 years time could be even worse (if that's possible). Also Franklin should be miles ahead of Martin in any selection (who is better in just about every way I can think of). To say of Martin 'his batting is completely and utterly irrelevant' is stupid in the extreme and it's nothing like suggesting you shouldn't select Trescothick because EVERYONE bats in an innings. It's no coincidence that the two best teams - Australia and England have bowlers who put a lot of effort into improving their batting.

My point was that if you pick a bowler, you look squarely at his bowling ability first and foremost. You look at New Zealand's latest batting line-up - Martin is the only one who can't hold a bat. Bond at number 10 is pretty useful. In fact i would argue that New Zealand has the longest batting line-up in any test team at the moment, England and Australia included. If you put Oram in there then Vettori comes in at 9, with two test centuries behind him. Not alot of number 9's have that sort of record.

Australia have been so successful in the last decade because their batsmen more often than not have done the job, meaning that the bowlers usually don't have to bat. If they get runs its a bonus. My point is that everyone shouldn't bat if you have quality batsmen. You don't think that Martin puts any effort into his? I beg to differ. He is a natural bunny - so was Danny Morrison. That is not why Morrison was selected though. He was there to bowl.

The only thing i agree with you on is re: Franklin. He will be the mainstay of New Zealand's test attack for a while to come. His variation is key, but also is his increasing pace. Consistency of line and length is my only question mark.

 

[AndrewM]

Yes, thats right Scaly..we'll just pull another fast bowler from our large production line.

Tuffey has been injured & out of form so I can't see what NZ would gain from him when he's better off going to Sri Lanka and playing a few 'A' games to get his fitness and form back.

Martin is the exception for NZ when it comes to tail end batting..just about every other NZ bowler can bat. Martin is just one of those who'll never get it.

Its all very well to come on here and start trashing our bowlers, but when you've got jot all to select from there's not much you can do.

And yes, we don't exactly have a plethora of bowlers like England or Australia to choose from.

Scaly, If you would like to be further educated on New Zealand's recent bowling crisis, or the lack of a 'production line' as Tim suggests, i suggest you look up New Zealand's 2000 tour of Africa archives. Who is Kerry Walmsley you will ask? My point stands.

 

[aussie]

That never happened. Period.

did you not see the game last season at the gabba with NZ & AUS when Dizzy & Pigeon made 50s in that hundred stand????

 

[shaka]

comedic finish to the test match, if he got to 50, which I think he did, congratulations.

 

[AndrewM]

did you not see the game last season at the gabba with NZ & AUS when Dizzy & Pigeon made 50s in that hundred stand????

Yes aussie, i did (how aptly named). I was discreetly trying to remove it from my system, as it was the most embarrasing display by a New Zealand team that i have ever witnessed. Therefore in my mind it never happened. Couldn't you taste my sarcasm?

 

[aussie]

Yes aussie, i did (how aptly named). I was discreetly trying to remove it from my system, as it was the most embarrasing display by a New Zealand team that i have ever witnessed. Therefore in my mind it never happened. Couldn't you taste my sarcasm?

hahaha i get you now, well if that had happened to either England or Australia i would have done the same too mate

 

[shaka]

I was feeling embarrased then too, and when Chris Martin got hit for more than 20 runs in a single over with Mahwire batting.

 

[anzac]

ok so after the ODI series in RSA what's on the agenda for the rest of the season so far as Test cricket for NZL?????

 

[_Ed_]

ok so after the ODI series in RSA what's on the agenda for the rest of the season so far as Test cricket for NZL?????

No tests until the first against West Indies at Eden Park in early March, about the 12th I think?

 

[anzac]

so far as the bowling stakes are concerned - Tuffy is still young enough to regain his place if he can regain his form - primarily his ball release................

NZL will persist with Martin until such time as they find another prospective 'strike' bowler to partner Bond - too often our seam 'attack' has consisted of pedestrian medium pacers who strangle wickets rather than take / create them..............and I include Oram, Tuffey & Franklin in this description...............O'Brien seems to be the next cab off the rank but he's also approaching 30................

me thinks they are waiting for the likes of Sherlock & Davis to get over their injuries & get a run in the domestic comp to see if they have 'the right stuff', and in the mean time will persist with the current pool of bowlers...............

my main gripe with Martin is that he only moves the ball 1 way & off the seam at that - but I'd rather have him in the team than Mills...............

 

[anzac]

so far as the debate regarding the batting prowess of tailenders, I subscribe to the theory that as a bowler you are primarily selected to do a job with the ball in hand and so long as you continue to do so I don't give a toss for your batting credentials - any contribution is a bonus...............

however that does not mean that I want some runs if they are not doing the job with the ball - IMO NZL has an over fixation with 'allround' abilities - it may be useful in Limited Overs cricket, but IMO it has been to the long term detriment of the Test side...........too much stock has been placed in the stats that Vettori has 2 Test tons & we bat down to #'s 9 & 10.............or that the likes of Oram, McCullum & Vettori should bat higher in the order - it may be fine in theory but I doubt they'd be as effective..........Gilchrist could possibly bat anywhere from #4 down for AUS, but he bats at #7 in the Test team for a reason.............

too often we rely on the lower order scoring runs to make up for the lack of performance from the top & middle orders, & as a consequence we have reinforced this thinking in our selection of a batting lower order & tailend rather than looking for specialists at either end of the order.............

I think I'd better stop my ranting - apologies................

 

[shaka]

If a tailender has the ability to bat, and his bowling is still of a high enough level that is worthy of a place in the squad then team score would be increased as the team has more players who can potentially score some runs.

 

[Smudge]

Thats clearly not funny.

Very unsportsmanlike from New Zealand.

Thats more of a disgrace that Zim's batting in the first test!

I saw that on the news tonight. There is no way NZ can be blamed for not calling him back. The ball was still being returned from the outfield. It's complete and sheer stupidity on Mpofu's part and the fact the Zimbabweans were cracking up in the player's enclosure pretty much suggests he deserves what he got.

 

[shaka]

Vettori was right to throw it to the keeper as no one was at the bowlers end. i see nothing wrong with what he did, but I was shocked when I saw what Mpofu did.

 

[AndrewM]

No tests until the first against West Indies at Eden Park in early March, about the 12th I think?

New Zealand's home schedule:
http://www.cricketweb.net/article.php?CategoryIDAuto= 8&NewsIDAuto=625

The 9th of March is the next test match, against the West Indies at Eden Park.

7 months of no test cricket - thats not on.

 

[Tim]

Only 3 tests in the whole summer...jeez.

 

[Nate]

LOL @ Martin.

Awesome to see Bond back. I hope, as much as you Kiwis, that he dominates against other nations now. Pity we won`t see him in Test Matches! Here`s hoping you guys get some scheduled in.

 

[Tim]

I just saw the Chris Mpofu incident on television and I don't know how you could blame NZ for that piece of stupidity.
NZ aren't there to give charity runs or let Zimbabwe off the hook. Mpofu totally lost the plot and in the end NZ did only what they should have done and ran him out.

 

[Tim]

I think it was good that he just went for accuracy in this series. He seriously believes he can bowl 150 k's but wisely decided to find some form instead of going out and trying to blast the Zimbabwe batsmen out with pace.

I think if he plays in the South Africa ODI's, we'll see him up the pace.