**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

[kingkallis]

Very valuable runs by Roach...if Chanders stays @ the crease then Windies has hopes.

 

[NasserFan207]

Well good days cricket. Could be an exciting final day, WI should win this but NZ definitely in with a shout here

 

[straw man]

****ing hell. What was that batting

 

[straw man]

Another day, another series of abject batting by NZ. Except Guptill:

Guptill: 277 runs at 69.25
Flynn: 65 runs at 32.5
McCullum: 128 runs at 32
Taylor: 126 runs at 31.5
Brownlie: 63 runs at 15.75
Van Wyk: 62 runs at 15.5
Williamson: 49 runs at 12.25
Watling: 13 runs at 6.5

 

[Bahnz]

Boult was bowling terribly by cop. Practically every ball drifting into the pads, really took all the pressure off Chanders and Roach. Can't see us getting up for this, dreadful play from New Zealand to lose this match from such a dominant position.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

No doubt we'll be stuck with three seamers and Dan as long as our batsman keep ****ing doing this.

 

[NasserFan207]

Boult was bowling terribly by cop. Practically every ball drifting into the pads, really took all the pressure off Chanders and Roach. Can't see us getting up for this, dreadful play from New Zealand to lose this match from such a dominant position.

Actually Boult bowled pretty well. Its getting kinda tiring reading all these blind posts from Kiwi fans, your team actually isn't that bad. Some good batting talent, and an solid pace bowling quartet. With Vettori and Ryder you'd have a good side.

Why not give credit to the opposition for once

 

[Bahnz]

Actually Boult bowled pretty well. Its getting kinda tiring reading all these blind posts from Kiwi fans, your team actually isn't that bad. Some good batting talent, and an solid pace bowling quartet. With Vettori and Ryder you'd have a good side.

Why not give credit to the opposition for once

I'm sorry, but continuously drifting into the pads of a night watchman is not good bowling. I'm not saying he bowled poorly all day long (I didn't see his opening spell, but presumably it was fairly decent as he got a wicket). But to offer a bunch of free runs at such a crucial stage of the match was poor. So is losing 10 wickets for a hundred runs.

There's no doubt that this New Zealand side has some decent players. But yesterday, they had worked there way into a position 20 minutes before the close from which no side should lose. The fact that they look like they're going to do so shows how mentally weak this side is.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Boult was bowling terribly by cop. Practically every ball drifting into the pads, really took all the pressure off Chanders and Roach. Can't see us getting up for this, dreadful play from New Zealand to lose this match from such a dominant position.

New Zealand were never in 'such a dominant position'. They had a useful lead and that's all. Their bowling attack isn't going to get much benefit from going last. A good session for West Indies (or a bad one for New Zealand) was all it was going to take for the advantage to swing to the Caribbean side.

 

[Meridio]

Actually Boult bowled pretty well. Its getting kinda tiring reading all these blind posts from Kiwi fans, your team actually isn't that bad. Some good batting talent, and an solid pace bowling quartet. With Vettori and Ryder you'd have a good side.

The problem is that we've had some good batting talent for quite a while now, yet they're not translating that talent into results; and, most annoyingly, they're making the same mistakes over and over again. We get into good positions and then have a disastrous session which costs us the game. It's happened time after time, and it's incredibly frustrating.

 

[NasserFan207]

I'm sorry, but continuously drifting into the pads of a night watchman is not good bowling. I'm not saying he bowled poorly all day long (I didn't see his opening spell, but presumably it was fairly decent as he got a wicket). But to offer a bunch of free runs at such a crucial stage of the match was poor. So is losing 10 wickets for a hundred runs.

There's no doubt that this New Zealand side has some decent players. But yesterday, they had worked there way into a position 20 minutes before the close from which no side should lose. The fact that they look like they're going to do so shows how mentally weak this side is.

Or it shows they are very uncomfortable batting against spin on WI pitches?

You are overthinking things in terms of problems. I predicted this would happen before the series, it was fairly obvious what the kiwi weakness was. Has nothing to do with mental instability.

Edit: I understand how frustrating this is for you guys, so I'll back off. IMO though your side is going in the right direction and has a good future.

 

[Bahnz]

New Zealand were never in 'such a dominant position'. They had a useful lead and that's all. Their bowling attack isn't going to get much benefit from going last. A good session for West Indies (or a bad one for New Zealand) was all it was going to take for the advantage to swing to the Caribbean side.

Being 100+ ahead for none on a difficult pitch isn't a dominant position? Ok...

Have to say, well played by Guptill in this series. He hasn't made a big score, but he's done a consistent job at the top against a good quality opening combination, and has looked controlled (if not convincing) against spin at times. Still not convinced, but it's a definite step in the right direction.

 

[Bahnz]

You are overthinking things in terms of problems. I predicted this would happen before the series, it was fairly obvious what the kiwi weakness was. Has nothing to do with mental instability.

So did I, I am pleasantly surprised that we've managed to win one game on this tour. But their performance in this match can't be taken in isolation. New Zealand over the last 3 or 4 years have made a real habit of throwing away games from winning (or at least highly competitive) positions. This side doesn't know how to win. I'm not sure whether that's a consequence of not playing enough test cricket, or not having the technique to grind out tough patches, but it's a real problem.

 

[Meridio]

So did I, I am pleasantly surprised that we've managed to win one game on this tour. But their performance in this match can't be taken in isolation. New Zealand over the last 3 or 4 years have made a real habit of throwing away games from winning (or at least highly competitive) positions. This side doesn't know how to win. I'm not sure whether that's a consequence of not playing enough test cricket, or not having the technique to grind out tough patches, but it's a real problem.

This part IMO is one of the major reasons we struggle. There's been a few articles in the last little while (cbf looking to find them) that have alluded to how little test cricket we play, and in particular how few three-match series we play. The current series is a prime example - why why why is it only two tests?

 

[_Ed_]

Guptill: 277 runs at 69.25

Fabulous. I hope this is a sign his hard work in the County Championship is starting to pay off.

As for our collapse: ugh. But we'll still be in this if we can get a couple of early wickets - preferably Shiv.

 

[BackFootPunch]

So did I, I am pleasantly surprised that we've managed to win one game on this tour. But their performance in this match can't be taken in isolation. New Zealand over the last 3 or 4 years have made a real habit of throwing away games from winning (or at least highly competitive) positions. This side doesn't know how to win. I'm not sure whether that's a consequence of not playing enough test cricket, or not having the technique to grind out tough patches, but it's a real problem.

Unfortunately that part in bold is one of those difficult circular logic things. If we don't know how to win then how will we ever win games? But if we don't win games how will we ever learn how to win?

As Meridio said, it's got a lot to do with playing more cricket. But if we play more games and lose anyway we're not exactly learning a great deal about how to win. All experience helps though.

I honestly think the problem is that we start thinking about winning when we shouldn't. When we got a lead of 100 with no wickets down people were talking about what sort of target we'd need to ensure we won. Why not just bat? Just bat until we're all out then bowl until we've got 10 wickets. Hopefully after doing that we'll be ahead on the scoreboard.

It was pretty obvious from the way we played at the end of the second day until we started bowling this morning that we were thinking about how to win. We were so conscious of not wanting to screw up a dominant position that we forgot to play normal cricket.

Since I've been watching cricket the only team who were able to think about winning and do it regularly were the dominant Aussie team. They had guys who set their mind to winning and did it through sheer will-power and incredible skill. We, quite clearly, have neither of those things. We need to just play cricket the way we do it best, with controlled aggression, and let the result take care of itself.

 

[straw man]

Why not give credit to the opposition for once

Take your point - this Windies side is pretty good, especially at home, and deserve credit. I guess there just aren't many Windies fans on this forum at the moment so we don't end up discussing them as much.

Gayle and Chanderpaul are better than any of our batsmen, plus Samuels is developing well. Roach is good and mystery spin from Narine plus real pace from Best are lethal against non-top-class batsmen like most of ours. Most of the rest are handy in home conditions (Deonarine's spin etc) so it's no surprise they're beating us.

It's still very frustrating seeing the manner of a lot of our dismissals while batting and things like dropped catches. Especially the inevitable collapse, usually self-induced, that occurs every single time we have our nose in front. A lot of truth in saying 'we don't know how to win'.

 

[Hurricane]

Watling's dropped catch?

Again he isn't a very honest player he should have said he didn't feel comfortable fielding at gully.

I am still quite perturbed at the dropped catches - Flynn in the 1st game and Watling in this inning. If we are ever going to compete or even just give the opposition a respectable game then we need to be in the top 2-3 sides in the world in fielding. I don't think that is too tough a goal - all fielding requires is some coordination and a willingness to practice. If you are a fringe player like Flynn, Watling, or Nicol in the ODIs then you should not be selected if you can't field. As poor as Jeetan Patel's bowling was he was a top fielder and really contributed in that area. I am not advocating that Patel be selected but just pointing out that our fringe players need to be top fielders not people you are trying to hide in the field.

 

[Mike5181]

Far out, our batsmen played poorly. We should've added at least another 50 runs to that lead.

 

[Howsie]

Watling's dropped catch?

Again he isn't a very honest player he should have said he didn't feel comfortable fielding at gully.

Never seen a player drop a catch?