***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[TT Boy]

Just looking over on Yahoo weather and the forecast for the test match is looking good, bit chilly (in the morning) but there's no sign of rain for the whole duration of the test.

 

[sideshowtim]

Just looking over on Yahoo weather and the forecast for the test match is looking good, bit chilly (in the morning) but there's no sign of rain for the whole duration of the test.

Hooray. Can't see the Saffers losing this test...although someone in their batting line up needs to stand up. Ntini is doing far more than this fair share.

 

[Prince EWS]

Technically his far better than Gibbs, Rudolph, Smith, Prince et cetera. His come on leaps and bounds since his test debut and batting at number three is nothing new for him, bats their usually for the Dolphins. Be interesting to see if he can convert that talent and success his had this year into the test arena be a pretty tough examination in Cape Town, I fear more for his temperament than his technique...

From what I saw of him in his three tests, his technique was absolutely horrid. One of the worst batting techniques I've ever seen...

 

[TT Boy]

From what I saw of him in his three tests, his technique was absolutely horrid. One of the worst batting techniques I've ever seen...

You said.

 

[Langeveldt]

Amla's technique isn't nearly as horrible as Smith's.. Still if both get some runs on the board it won't matte..

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Amla in the team for tomorrow. Bond will be licking his chops.

All I can remember about Amla from the South Africa v England series in 2004-05 is a huge stride across his stumps and being trapped lbw as a result.

 

[Macka]

Man, you really don't rate him, do you?

Ha! Go the subconscious He deserves his place in the team as a bowler (I have to give it him... he's really improved a lot in the last year) and as a lower-order batsmen.

Even though he scored 97 just a couple of tests ago?

I did have a lengthy reply written to this, but my flatmate asked to use my laptop while I was writing it and, being so damn nice, I let her. She then closed the browser before I submitted it...

Anyway, I can't remember what I wrote. I'm still irate over Fleming not standing up as the captain and as a batsman. Credit where credit is due... Fleming batted well for his 97, although he should have made it a century. However, it wasn't a match-winning innings in the way Lou Vincent's last return was.

What I'm saying is that Fleming is no better than any other batsman in the team. His average doesn't say he is. He isn't scoring consistant runs and winning us matches. He isn't making hundreds. And worse, he just doesn't seem to want to stand up as captain. We need a captain who is willing to go out there when it counts and is mentally stronger than Fleming.

 

[Macka]

That is ludicrus. It is not as if we have top order batsmen queeing up behind Fleming and pushing hard to take his place. Sure there is Sinclair and Vincent but neither of those guys deserve to take the place of the captain of New Zealand.

I don't think you appreciate just how much the ball was doing when we sent Mills out. Just because Fleming has 'experience' doesn't mean it will be easier for him to see off a swinging/variable bouncing new ball.

The MIlls idea was for him to last 5-10 overs and see the shine off the new ball so that Fleming and the middle order could come in afterwards when the ball was doing less and we could therefore limit the damage of the new ball and save our stroke makers for a situation where it would be easier for them to score runs freely.

Why not take a risk with a batsman like Mills whose wicket has less value than Fleming's and see if he can make things easier for the rest of the batting line up. Mills has decent technique and I would back him to usually last 30 balls or so. We saw when Fleming got out there straight after Mills that the conditions were suiting the bowlers and it was likely that he would eventually get an edge.

I don't know why everyone assumes Fleming should be so good against swing/seam. He started his career at number 4 and has only succeded as an opener on flat decks. His technique certainly isn't up to it against quality seam/ swing bowling IMO.

I strongly disagree... obviously. I'd rather see Vincent in the side ahead of Fleming, but that's another argument. Because Fleming has "experience" is EXACTLY the reason it would have been easier for him to see off the new ball. Sending out Mills did nothing but sacrific him.

What you explain Mills' job to be sounds an awful lot like an opener's job to me. I know it's not easy being an opener at times, but this was not a job for in inexperienced, unskilled player like Kyle Mills. All it does it point to what we already know: we do not have a top order.

Why did MIlls come in ahead of Fleming? Why didn't he just open the innings?

Perhaps Fleming's technique isn't good enough against quality swing and seam bowling. Do you think Mills' is, though? At the end of the day, whose job in the team is it to stand up and bat for their team: Mills' or Fleming's? Out of all our batsmen Fleming is best placed for that situation.

Doesn't this make you angry?

"We looked up at the dressing room stairs and there was Kyle Mills. He was coming in to be a new-ball watchman, or something like that."
Dale Steyn's take on New Zealand's tactic to promote Kyle Mills to No 3 in the last innings of the first Test at Centurion. Mills lasted all of two balls.

They're laughing at us. The South Africans would be absolutely taking the ****. And good on them. It was Fleming's idea, and it was a pathetic, cowardly, and selfish one.

 

[Dick Rockett]

What I'm saying is that Fleming is no better than any other batsman in the team. His average doesn't say he is. He isn't scoring consistant runs and winning us matches. He isn't making hundreds. And worse, he just doesn't seem to want to stand up as captain. We need a captain who is willing to go out there when it counts and is mentally stronger than Fleming.

Sorry man, I just don't see why Fleming should be making any more of a contribution with the bat simply because he's the captain. All your arguments above could equally apply to any of the other batsmen in the team. You could even say that because they don't have the burden of captaincy, their jobs should be easier and hence, they should be scoring more runs than Fleming does.

Captaincy is essentially management. Deciding tactics, batting orders, field placements, geeing up the troops, facing the media, and so on. It's an entirely separate job from scoring runs.

 

[Dick Rockett]

It was Fleming's idea, and it was a pathetic, cowardly, and selfish one.

Such vitriol is really unnecessary. I reckon like a lot of people, you just can't stand Fleming and will find any reason you can to launch a ridiculously personal attack on him. The problem with that is that you come across as hateful, and it's hard to take any such person's arguments seriously.

I will counter with this though: if Mills is such a rubbish batsman, why on earth did it matter where we batted him? Zero is zero no matter where in the order you score it. Surely it makes sense to try and use such "cannon fodder" to protect the top order on such a minefield of a pitch?

 

[James]

He isn't doing too badly with the bat lately, and in fact leads on averages. These are the past 10 Test innings from each New Zealand batsman.

Stephen Fleming
16, 41, 88, 73, 65, 14, 33, 97, 0, 6. [43.30]
Nathan Astle
114, 19, 0, 23, 128, 51, 13, 65, 4, 2. [41.90]
Hamish Marshall
6, 6, 20, 13, 11, 1, 3, 23*, 6, 25. [12.67]
Peter Fulton
17, 28, 75, 14, 4. [27.60]
Scott Styris
7, 28, 8, 7, 45, 103*, 5, 8, 17, 2. [25.56]
Brendon McCullum
99, 7, 0, 111, 24, 19, 74, 23, 31, 33. [42.10]

 

[Dick Rockett]

Don't let me find out you're at the office James

 

[James]

Don't let me find out you're at the office James

Haha, you've got to be joking, I'm at home on this awful day (weather wise)!

 

[Smudge]

Just as bad here, and I've got to go and cover rugby (and take photos in the rain )

 

[NZTailender]

He isn't doing too badly with the bat lately, and in fact leads on averages. These are the past 10 Test innings from each New Zealand batsman.

Stephen Fleming
16, 41, 88, 73, 65, 14, 33, 97, 0, 6. [43.30]
Nathan Astle
114, 19, 0, 23, 128, 51, 13, 65, 4, 2. [41.90]
Hamish Marshall
6, 6, 20, 13, 11, 1, 3, 23*, 6, 25. [12.67]
Peter Fulton
17, 28, 75, 14, 4. [27.60]
Scott Styris
7, 28, 8, 7, 45, 103*, 5, 8, 17, 2. [25.56]
Brendon McCullum
99, 7, 0, 111, 24, 19, 74, 23, 31, 33. [42.10]

Lou Vincent
4, 63, 24, 2, 40, 0, 52, 224, 13, 92. [51.40]

Sigh

 

[sideshowtim]

Jesus, why the hell is Vincent even out of the side? Ridiculous. You're meant to pick the best team for your country, personal opinions should never get in the way.

 

[shaka]

expected arrival of his first child to partner, Ellie, on April the 15th. not sure if this has happened yet.

 

[thedarkmullet]

expected arrival of his first child to partner, Ellie, on April the 15th. not sure if this has happened yet.

Yeah i think it happened halfway through the first test.

 

[Ming]

It has. He was only unavailable for the 1st Test but Bracewell refused to pick him for the remainder.

Those are awful figures for Styris. Take out his 103* and the average is very low.

 

[TT Boy]

Bond heads back home...

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