***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[oz_fan]

De Villiers played a rather important innings in the first test.

Yeah he did. I'll edit.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yet they continue to stick with Smith who has failed all summer. You would think by now that the SA selectors would either drop him from the team so he can regain his form or take away the responsibility of being captain. Kallis did an ok job in the third test against Australia, maybe that is the better option for SA.

Even Gibbs has failed throughout the year in tests so have many SA batsmen (Gibbs, Prince, Smith, Rudolph). I am suprised that they continue to stick with Prince when Gibbs is an experienced member of the team. Anyway at least they have made some changes. It will be good to see how Amla goes.

Prince and Rudolph both played well in Australia, and Prince did well in South Africa against the Australians as well. Gibbs has been decidedly ordinary for a while. I still don't understand the logic in him opening recently though, considering he was clearly struggling against any movement in towards him at all.

Dippenaar should be opening the batting... as long as he doesnt do any more of those stupid "cut" shots to short balls just outside offstump early in his innings. Rudolph is a solid #3. He looks good when he's out there and seemed to get out in a lot of very strange and unlucky ways against the Australians. Prince has played some good innings of late.

Dropping Gibbs was the right call IMO, as long as they dont play Amla.

 

[Macka]

It was a good move IMO. It's called innovation.

Edit - and I don't know why you have such an issue with Fleming. He is our most successful captain ever. God knows what would have happened if he hadn't taken over in 97...

It was pitiful. And I'm really surprised there hasn't been much talk of it on this forum. Innovation is sending out McCullum to attack, which we know he can do. It might have been slighty more acceptable if Mills had a history of blunting attacks at international level, but he doesn't. He simply does not have the skills to bat in that situation. Even if he did, he's never done it before. Fleming, however, does.

What's worse than having two untested openers? I'd saying sending in Mills. Look at the situation: Two guys who are not openers opening the innings, despite Vincent being out and our apparent specialist selection policy being in place, and Kyle Mills coming in at three. If ever we needed Fleming to step up and use his experience, it was then.

I honestly don't know what they were thinking. What do they expect by using 3 new "top-order" players? What this does is put more pressure on the middle order, not reduce it. Losing more wickets earlier in the innings, no matter who it is, places more pressure on the remaining batsmen. And that's what we saw.

Fleming has done a good job in the past with the team. And we shouldn't lose sight of that. (Well, I shouldn't... maybe.) But now is not '97. We do have the talent in the team to win without Fleming there; I don't think we should just accept Fleming's place in the side or as captain.

 

[Smudge]

Even though he scored 97 just a couple of tests ago?

 

[Dasa]

Kill Mills

Man, you really don't rate him, do you?

 

[Blaze]

Fleming has done a good job in the past with the team. And we shouldn't lose sight of that. (Well, I shouldn't... maybe.) But now is not '97. We do have the talent in the team to win without Fleming there; I don't think we should just accept Fleming's place in the side or as captain.

That is ludicrus. It is not as if we have top order batsmen queeing up behind Fleming and pushing hard to take his place. Sure there is Sinclair and Vincent but neither of those guys deserve to take the place of the captain of New Zealand.

I don't think you appreciate just how much the ball was doing when we sent Mills out. Just because Fleming has 'experience' doesn't mean it will be easier for him to see off a swinging/variable bouncing new ball.

The MIlls idea was for him to last 5-10 overs and see the shine off the new ball so that Fleming and the middle order could come in afterwards when the ball was doing less and we could therefore limit the damage of the new ball and save our stroke makers for a situation where it would be easier for them to score runs freely.

Why not take a risk with a batsman like Mills whose wicket has less value than Fleming's and see if he can make things easier for the rest of the batting line up. Mills has decent technique and I would back him to usually last 30 balls or so. We saw when Fleming got out there straight after Mills that the conditions were suiting the bowlers and it was likely that he would eventually get an edge.

I don't know why everyone assumes Fleming should be so good against swing/seam. He started his career at number 4 and has only succeded as an opener on flat decks. His technique certainly isn't up to it against quality seam/ swing bowling IMO.

 

[Langeveldt]

From hero to zero in the space of a month and a bit.

He scores that match-winning 175 in the record 434 chase, and then is dropped from the test side. Amazing.

I know, made even more incredible by the fact that SA are totally on top of NZ

 

[sirjeremy11]

Hamish Marshall's accustomed spot, opening the batting for New Zealand is in jeopardy, because of the ribcage rattling he took in the first test.

New Zealand practices again tomorrow with Michael Papps and Jamie How on stand-by for the second test against the Proteas, starting on Thursday in Cape Town.

Meanwhile Shane Bond's fitness is looking grim; his knee needs to be able to handle some rigorous testing before he will give it the thumbs up.

He says he now wants to have a couple of heavy days on it to give it a testing workout.

However, the dodgy knees of Nathan Astle and James Franklin have now been given the all clear.

Woohoo! Marshall might not be playing!

 

[sideshowtim]

shane bond is so ridiculously unfit....

 

[sirjeremy11]

I wouldn't say he is unfit, I would say that he appears to have a body not fit for cricket.

Heard a caller on talkback the other day that they had a friend who was a Black Cap (think they mentioned Astle), and that Bond was mentally weak.

Found that interesting.

I mean you can't fault a guy who keeps breaking down with fractures and things, but he has had a lot of "pains" and viruses.

I don't know. I really like the guy, and what his presence does for our attack, but when is enough enough?

 

[Dick Rockett]

when is enough enough?

When he's dead.

Seriously though, look at his face when he's about to turn for his run-up and tell me he's mentally weak. He's a barely-contained raging monster!

 

[Dick Rockett]

Yogi raises his bat to acknowledge the deafening applause for his triple century

 

[sirjeremy11]

I would always have him in my side, whenever possible to be honest. But does he have the Lara syndrome - ie. when he is not in the side his team mates perform better?

I don't like that Franklin has knee problems.

 

[sirjeremy11]

Yogi raises his bat to acknowledge the deafening applause for his triple century

Next time you see Martin, just don't rub it in.

You saw that dude when he was angry.

 

[sideshowtim]

new zealand need bond. there is no doubt about that. he is by far the finest bowler to come from NZ since hadlee although he lets them down so much with injuries it's ridiculous. they rely a bit too heavily on him i believe....

 

[Prince EWS]

SOUTH AFRICAN BATTING AVERAGES SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE TOUR TO AUSTRALIA

AJ Hall - 58 runs in 2 innings @ 58.00.
JH Kallis - 520 runs in 12 innings @ 47.27.
JM Kemp - 62 runs in 2 innings @ 31.00.
SM Pollock - 273 runs in 11 innings @ 30.33.
HH Dippenaar - 120 runs in 4 innings @ 30.00.
AG Prince - 411 runs in 14 innings @ 29.36.
AB de Villiers - 403 runs in 14 innings @ 28.79.
MV Boucher - 333 runs in 14 innings @ 27.75.
JA Rudolph - 294 runs in 12 innings @ 26.73.
HH Gibbs - 372 runs in 14 innings @ 26.57.
N Boje - 225 runs in 10 innings @ 25.00.
GC Smith - 282 runs in 12 innings @ 23.50.
DW Steyn - 20 runs in 2 innings @ 20.00.
A Nel - 91 runs in 10 innings @ 11.38.
M Ntini - 64 runs in 11 innings @ 9.14.
CK Langeveldt - 1 runs in 2 innings @ 1.00.

Gibbs's dropping really doesn't seem unjustified to me at all.

 

[sirjeremy11]

new zealand need bond. there is no doubt about that. he is by far the finest bowler to come from NZ since hadlee although he lets them down so much with injuries it's ridiculous. they rely a bit too heavily on him i believe....

Agreed. I think even when he was injured for two years, people were saying "Wait until we get Bond back!", and he had only played about 10 tests.

Think his career is going to end up much more "what if" than Chris Cairns.

 

[sideshowtim]

SOUTH AFRICAN BATTING AVERAGES SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE TOUR TO AUSTRALIA

AJ Hall - 58 runs in 2 innings @ 58.00.
JH Kallis - 520 runs in 12 innings @ 47.27.
JM Kemp - 62 runs in 2 innings @ 31.00.
SM Pollock - 273 runs in 11 innings @ 30.33.
HH Dippenaar - 120 runs in 4 innings @ 30.00.
AG Prince - 411 runs in 14 innings @ 29.36.
AB de Villiers - 403 runs in 14 innings @ 28.79.
MV Boucher - 333 runs in 14 innings @ 27.75.
JA Rudolph - 294 runs in 12 innings @ 26.73.
HH Gibbs - 372 runs in 14 innings @ 26.57.
N Boje - 225 runs in 10 innings @ 25.00.
GC Smith - 282 runs in 12 innings @ 23.50.
DW Steyn - 20 runs in 2 innings @ 20.00.
A Nel - 91 runs in 10 innings @ 11.38.
M Ntini - 64 runs in 11 innings @ 9.14.
CK Langeveldt - 1 runs in 2 innings @ 1.00.

Gibbs's dropping really doesn't seem unjustified to me at all.

graeme smith better watch himself. for someone who has been promotoed as south africa's best since pollock he's had a very lean run against the world quality bowling attack of australia. his captaincy isn't good enough to justify a place in the team for that alone like fleming is.

 

[sirjeremy11]

his captaincy isn't good enough to justify a place in the team for that alone like fleming is.

Are you taking the mickey?

 

[oz_fan]

graeme smith better watch himself. for someone who has been promotoed as south africa's best since pollock he's had a very lean run against the world quality bowling attack of australia. his captaincy isn't good enough to justify a place in the team for that alone like fleming is.

Especially if they start to drop more players. I think he was lucky to escape being dropped for the team this time instead of Gibbs when you consider Gibbs has been in the team longer and they already have a replacement for captain (Kallis). He really needs a big score in the next match to cement his place.