*Official** New Zealand in England

[tooextracool]

so far as Macca being allowed to make the call goes..............HELL NO!!!!!!!

IMO he's done nothing on this tour so far to warrant that consideration, and likewise he's not of the class / consistency of the likes of Lara, Tendulkar, Richardson...............

yet he has been performing a lot better than most of the other players....IMO they should go in with 2 specialist openers regardless of whether they are in form. justin langer was in the worst form of his life in the warm ups here in 2001 and then ended up scoring big when he was called up for the final test at the oval.

 

[marc71178]

rather its the other way around IMO. england will always be wary of not having giles in the side,especially since the headingly pitch has been more suited to spinners this year(or so im told). the thing with giles even if they do decide to play him instead of collingwood is that he isnt a mug with the bat so they wont lose out completely from his presence in the side.

It is a tricky one - I was in favour of dropping Giles, but I think that bowl at Lords will have got his rhythm and confidence back to a degree.

In Collingwood's favour we lengthen the batting and have a great fielder.
In Giles we have variety in attack and someone that can tie up an end if things start to go mental.

It's nice to be in a position where we have genuine selection dilemmas.

 

[Andre]

Ok, heres the next one: If Collingwood plays at 6 and Flintoff at 7, Geraint Jones' selection in essence becomes debatable at best.

Should Chris Read play if the English keeper is going to be batting at number 8? Frankly, Jones' glovework isn't good enough for him to bat below 7 IMO.

 

[tooextracool]

Should Chris Read play if the English keeper is going to be batting at number 8? Frankly, Jones' glovework isn't good enough for him to bat below 7 IMO.

hard to say that after just 1 poor test match,especially in a place where most keepers have struggled with the gloves anyways. give him a chance....

 

[a massive zebra]

hard to say that after just 1 poor test match,especially in a place where most keepers have struggled with the gloves anyways. give him a chance....

Yes in the 1st Test all the commentators were saying that Jones' problem was more due to the pitch than his own mediocrity. In his debut the West Indies had well over 600 before he conceded a bye.

 

[Loony BoB]

In ODI's, he goes for a lot, and quite often, for most bowlers, it carries on in Tests. His FC average is 31, which is not that good for a strike bowler. On the other hand, if Butler gets that odd burst of 5 wickets, it can help the team win a match- Butler has more effect as a bowler than Mills. The more consistent bowlers will be Tuffey, Oram and Cairns. I doubt if there is much point in playing 4 medium-pacers.

ODIs, eh?
Mills
Average: 31.83
S/R: 41.1
E/R: 4.64
Wickets: 37 in 32 matches. Just over one a match.
Best Bowling: 3-30

Butler
Average: 53.85
S/R: 57.0
E/R: 5.66
Wickets: 7 in 10 matches. Less than a wicket a match.
Best Bowling: 2-32

Now, say what you just said again.

What about Michael Mason? How effective will he be?

He probably won't be effective, because he probably won't play.

It's all very well and good saying Oram should play as a batsman, but if he injuries it in the match, he can't have a runner as he is going into the match with a pre-existing condition.

I agree, Oram needs to be rested so he can play in the last test. Hopefully.

Sorry, why Sinclair would come straight into the side as an opener is completely beyond me.

When you have a player that's that inconsistent (have you seen how many times he gets out for less than ten runs?), it shouldn't really matter where you put him. Let Fleming have #3, because he's more likely to do well from that position than Sinclair is.

And if I was England, I'd play Giles. If it becomes a true spinners wicket, then even with Vaughan back, they'll want to have a more specialist spinner - especially with Vaughan fresh from injury. If he buggers himself up in the first innings while bowling, you'll all be kicking yourself - you'll be down a batsmen without Hussain to replace him AND you'll be down a spinner on what appears to be a spinner's ground (according to what has been said in this thread).

 

[SpaceMonkey]

And if I was England, I'd play Giles. If it becomes a true spinners wicket, then even with Vaughan back, they'll want to have a more specialist spinner - especially with Vaughan fresh from injury. If he buggers himself up in the first innings while bowling, you'll all be kicking yourself - you'll be down a batsmen without Hussain to replace him AND you'll be down a spinner on what appears to be a spinner's ground (according to what has been said in this thread).

Luckily theres plenty young batsmen ready to come in (collingwood / bell / key / newman to name a few) if we have another batsmen injured.

 

[Loony BoB]

Luckily theres plenty young batsmen ready to come in (collingwood / bell / key / newman to name a few) if we have another batsmen injured.

Yes, but you're not just losing a batsman. You'd be losing your captain, a high order batsman and your only spin bowler. So now you're looking for a high order batsman who can spin the ball. So you bring in Giles. For Vaughan.

I'd say that's quite a setback, and Vaughan may be fit to bat but I would say it's a bit on the risky side making him the only spinner on a spinner's wicket.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Yes, but you're not just losing a batsman. You'd be losing your captain, a high order batsman and your only spin bowler. So now you're looking for a high order batsman who can spin the ball. So you bring in Giles. For Vaughan.

I'd say that's quite a setback, and Vaughan may be fit to bat but I would say it's a bit on the risky side making him the only spinner on a spinner's wicket.

All fair points, but his knee is 100% and bowling spin is hardly gonna do it in i think!

 

[Loony BoB]

All fair points, but his knee is 100% and bowling spin is hardly gonna do it in i think!

Of course, it's not a definite - but should Vaughan be the only spinner on a spinner's wicket anyway? Is he prepared to bowl as many overs as Giles would bowl? Can he take as many wickets as Giles can take, for as little a cost in runs? Seems silly, really.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Is Headingley likely to be a spinner's (spinners'?) wicket, though?

The weather is set to be belting all weekend - could well turn come Monday.

Just heard that Fleming has an ear infection and didn't train today, and that Vaughan will definitely bat at four.

 

[marc71178]

Ok, heres the next one: If Collingwood plays at 6 and Flintoff at 7, Geraint Jones' selection in essence becomes debatable at best.

Should Chris Read play if the English keeper is going to be batting at number 8? Frankly, Jones' glovework isn't good enough for him to bat below 7 IMO.

Another reason why I wanted Collingwood in for Giles.

Mind you I'd have been tempted by him at 4, Thorpe 5 and then Tres or Strauss at 6 - Left-Right all the way down to number 7.

 

[marc71178]

In his debut the West Indies had well over 600 before he conceded a bye.

Yes, but how many balls got passed the bat?

 

[a massive zebra]

Is Headingley likely to be a spinner's (spinners'?) wicket, though?

Its spinners. No need for an excess apostrophe and spinners' would be pronounced spinnerses.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Its spinners. No need for an excess apostrophe and spinners' would be pronounced spinnerses.

You're definitely the walking dictionary aren't you

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Just heard that Fleming has an ear infection and didn't train today

BBC say he could be a doubt for the test, i really couldnt see how he could bat on the first morning if they were forced just 24 hours after waking up an ear infection if its anything more than a mild one.

 

[a massive zebra]

You're definitely the walking dictionary aren't you

 

[PY]

Speaking as someone who had chronic ear trouble as a child, I found it severely affects your balance even if it is only a mild case of earache so if it hasn't cleared up then I can't see him playing with his balance out of line and the pain thrown in as well.

 

[Isolator]

Its spinners. No need for an excess apostrophe and spinners' would be pronounced spinnerses.

An apostrophe here and there doesn't hurt, you know?

 

[luckyeddie]

Its spinners. No need for an excess apostrophe and spinners' would be pronounced spinnerses.

You're asking for trouble if you try to out-ginge Neil in the ancient Lincolnshire art of Pedantics.