*Official** New Zealand in England

[Craig]

not as a specialist but as a 'keeper why not???????????

Question I ask is, is McCullum good enough to play as a batsman?

 

[blackcapsrule]

Question I ask is, is McCullum good enough to play as a batsman?

Yes. He has shown that from the last few knocks.

 

[meatspx]

Playing Hopkins and McCullum? You've got to be kidding me!

I think we can agree with:
a) change is needed in the middle order (McMillan/Styris)
b) we need more "strike power"

You can't loose a test match in such a dissapointing style and keep the same team, when players are not performing or are out of form. If McMillan is injured then that would make the selection much easier; if he is fit to play I would drop Styris and bring in Sinclair. Sinclair could bat at #2 or #3. However Styris would be an excellent bowling option, especially if Oram is injured. I think either 1 of them has to make way. Papps is out of form and isn't worth considering.

In regards to the bowling side of things; Mills and Mason aren't good enough. Tuffey and Martin have the potential but are not performing atm, Bracewell and Fleming should evaluate their position on how they are bowling in the nets. Styris says Tuffey is still struggling due to the byproduct of his knee injury - if this is the case I would replace him with Butler. This shows how desperate NZ should be.

 

[_Ed_]

Mills in a Test team? He bowls at less than medium pace and bats at 11. He goes for lots of runs between wickets. Why not go in for the faster Butler instead? He goes for a lot less.

Mills has an FC batting average of 41, including a century.

 

[tooextracool]

whatever happened to Chris Nevin...lol

whatever happened to robbie hart?he wasnt that bad was he?

 

[Loony BoB]

Richardson, Fleming, Astle, Sinclair, McCullum, Cairns, Vettori, Hopkins, Tuffey, Mills, Martin???????

Longest tail I've seen for NZ in a long time, eh?

with Astle, Sinclair, McCullum to be interchangeable re order, as all have experience as openers in ODIs, & Sinclair & McCullum have opened in the longer game at domestic level (Sinclair for NZL 'A')..............

Forget NZ A, hasn't Sinclair opened for NZ? I thought that was where he got one of his double centuries, too... not sure, though. Never really liked Sinclair due to him being so inconsistent, but at least when he does fire he does it bloody well. Should be interesting.

Sinclair at #3, McCullum at #4 & Astle at #5 would be my pick - Sinclair to anchor the top of the innings,

Not mine! Unless Richardson gets out first, of course. But to have Richardson and Sinclair playing together would be testing cricket indeed.

not as a specialist but as a 'keeper why not???????????

his FC stats with the bat are slightly better than Robbie Hart's - for me the question is one of is his 'keeping up to it!!!!!

I'm picking Sinclair will already be a starter, and that Hopkins will have the gloves if Oram can not take the field................takes some of the pressure off McCullum so he can concentrate on his batting................

Of course, I'd rather Sinclair or even Fulton or Matt Walker play as a specialist batsman than McCullum... so I'm not sure if McCullum should be playing as a specialist batsman just yet (although I'm not complaining, really, just wondering if we could do better). It'll be interesting, though, how they choose their wicky from the two of them if they both play. I'm guessing it would be as you said, but then that does raise the question of who should be there in the first place.

whatever happened to Chris Nevin...lol

He was too short. Literally. His keeping wasn't up to international standards, last I heard, and at one point (at least) one of the balls went right over his gloves, and he had even jumped a bit to try to get it! Very embarrassing... but yeah, he didn't pull his domestic form through as well as McCullum did, I guess. Or maybe he came in during Parore's days while Parore was injured and then Parore just came back and Nevin was never as good from that point. Not sure... but he was definitely too short.

Mills in a Test team? He bowls at less than medium pace and bats at 11. He goes for lots of runs between wickets. Why not go in for the faster Butler instead? He goes for a lot less.

He goes for a lot less? Mills has never played a test. Don't knock him 'til you've tried him. Butler, however, has been tried. And he sure got knocked - by the opposing teams he played. Performing in one innings per series is not good enough.

Question I ask is, is McCullum good enough to play as a batsman?

Good enough? I'd say so. But the real question is, is he the best man for the job? That's where I'm a bit unsure... I even wonder if giving Harris another shot would be a better idea, but I'm not worried. Just wondering.

If McMillan is injured then that would make the selection much easier; if he is fit to play I would drop Styris and bring in Sinclair. Sinclair could bat at #2 or #3. However Styris would be an excellent bowling option, especially if Oram is injured. I think either 1 of them has to make way.

Keep in mind that Sinclair is probably more inconsistent than McMillan and Styris combined, and only five times in 36 innings has he passed 50. And you can't say his form has improved at domestic level because he's always been good at domestic level - he just doesn't pull through too well (not sure why). If he does perform, it's great, but I think he's just as big a risk as the other two and I'm not sure that's worth trying.

In regards to the bowling side of things; Mills and Mason aren't good enough. Tuffey and Martin have the potential but are not performing atm, Bracewell and Fleming should evaluate their position on how they are bowling in the nets. Styris says Tuffey is still struggling due to the byproduct of his knee injury - if this is the case I would replace him with Butler.

Again, you can't say Mills isn't good enough until he's given a test, because he's never played at that level yet. I agree he isn't anything amazing, but it's not that hard to be better than Butler - but I've probably said that enough lately. I'll keep quiet on the Adams front, too, just to be kind. *cough*hattrickand50+scoresand8forswhileButlerdoesnothingspecialatanylevelbesidesbowlsfastballsthatreachtheboundaryjustasfast*cough*

This shows how desperate NZ should be.

SHOULD? NZ shouldn't be desperate - it's not like we weren't competing in the last test, is it? We've lost one test and suddenly everyone's blowing up. Realistically, we only lost one innings of that test, while the rest of them we were competing quite well and at the start of the last day, we were in a position where we could have won. We didn't. Tough luck - but don't go head over heels about it.

 

[meatspx]

SHOULD? NZ shouldn't be desperate - it's not like we weren't competing in the last test, is it? We've lost one test and suddenly everyone's blowing up. Realistically, we only lost one innings of that test, while the rest of them we were competing quite well and at the start of the last day, we were in a position where we could have won. We didn't. Tough luck - but don't go head over heels about it.

Hehe - well I'm not the most confident NZ fan atm
The batting is prone to colapsing, their is no solidity in the 3-4-5 positions, and the bowling in the last test wasn't up to scratch.

We never looked like winning on the last day - 2 quick wickets but no penetration. Our bowling was lacklusture in both innings, and the collapses threw away 2 good positions.

 

[Loony BoB]

Hehe - well I'm not the most confident NZ fan atm
The batting is prone to colapsing, their is no solidity in the 3-4-5 positions, and the bowling in the last test wasn't up to scratch.

We never looked like winning on the last day - 2 quick wickets but no penetration. Our bowling was lacklusture in both innings, and the collapses threw away 2 good positions.

I agree that we never looked like winning on the last day, but that was only one day that REALLY let us down. We were in it for most of the way, and although it doesn't make a difference to the result it does make a difference to how bad we should take the defeat and how many people should be thrown out with the garbage.

Just imagine where we'd be right now if we threw out every performer who struggled for a few innings - we sure as hell wouldn't be competing for third in the world, let alone second. Sometimes you have to relax a little... it may not always pay off, but if we said "Oh no, we're all going to die" and then threw in an out-of-form Papps, an inconsistent Butler and Sinclair and a newbie Taylor and then failed again, would we go for third-choice batsmen and bowlers?

And believe me, I'm not that confident, but I'm doing my best to be realistic and am reassuring myself with the fact that just because we didn't win the last match doesn't mean we couldn't have.

 

[Kent]

People shouldn't forget that for NZ to be 160-1 in the 1st innings, 180-1 in the second, and then somehow lose a test is completely out of character. Typically our middle and lower-order will be rallying after a shaky start, yet NZ's still posted more 500+ scores than in any other decade.

To lose after our top-order actually laid a platform twice was extremely disappointing, but the only changes to our batting line-up should be enforced ones IMO.

The same goes for anyone thinking Ian Butler could be the NZ attack's missing link. The truth is England are fresh from dealing with a whole attack of Ian Butlers. The skin colour might be different, but I'm sure the macho bowling would be about on a par. The West Indians can even boast that they're quicker than Butler.

IMO, what's far more likely to prove the NZ attack's missing link is one (or all) of the following:

* The 10kph of pace Chris Martin suddenly lost.
* Tuffey's fitness.
* Vettori's dubious lack of luck/talent/good tactics.
* Chris Cairns getting fired up about bowling for once, rather than glumly referring to it as 'my day job'.

 

[MoxPearl]

seriously why not harris ?

 

[Loony BoB]

seriously why not harris ?

He had a lot of trouble performing well at international level in the past - never scored a century in 42 innings, and only managed 5 half centuries with a high score of 71 that a specialist bowler would be happy with but a batsmen would cry over.

Still, his last test was just under two years ago, so you do have to wonder if the man who is one of our best domestic batsmen (and one of our most consistent ODI batsmen) should get another shot. It's a really tough call, to be honest - similar to Sinclair, really. Do you put someone that inconsistent in to bat? Sinclair has had just as many half centuries/centuries in total (3 centuries, 2 half centuries), and has a higher average by over 18 runs (which is a huge difference), but ooh, if Harris could just pull through his domestic ability we'd be sorted. Pity he probably can't. Sigh.

 

[tooextracool]

vaughan looks all set to bat at 4 in the 2nd test.....hardly surprising since they've been looking to push him down the order for a while now.

 

[a massive zebra]

WOW. Martin Saggers has been called up for the England squad. I didn't see that one coming. An excellent decision.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

WOW. Martin Saggers has been called up for the England squad. I didn't see that one coming. An excellent decision.

Well there was no one else to come in. Johnson / Kirby / Kabir all unfit. Caddick probably too old now. So it was a straight choice between Saggers and Mahmood id reckon with Mahmood been more like Harmison / Jones and Saggers more like Anderson, Saggers got the nod.

 

[a massive zebra]

Well there was no one else to come in. Johnson / Kirby / Kabir all unfit. Caddick probably too old now. So it was a straight choice between Saggers and Mahmood id reckon with Mahmood been more like Harmison / Jones and Saggers more like Anderson, Saggers got the nod.

Is Johnson unfit? He has been playing county cricket recently.

Since when were Kirby/Kabir/Mahmood higher in the pecking order than Kirtley/Johnson?

Selecting Caddick would definitely be a backward step, as would the selection of Bicknell.

 

[anzac]

ok so the latest news from the NZ camp is that Oram had to leave a post match training session with a recurrance of the side strain compliant.............

IMO this should rule both him & Macca out of the 2nd Test..............my basis for this is that I want players who are fit enough to do the job - not any walking wounded...............

my only other concern re injury is the reports that Tuffey may not be 100% re his knee, or is it something that he just has to work thru'...............

 

[anzac]

People shouldn't forget that for NZ to be 160-1 in the 1st innings, 180-1 in the second, and then somehow lose a test is completely out of character. Typically our middle and lower-order will be rallying after a shaky start, yet NZ's still posted more 500+ scores than in any other decade.

To lose after our top-order actually laid a platform twice was extremely disappointing, but the only changes to our batting line-up should be enforced ones IMO.

The same goes for anyone thinking Ian Butler could be the NZ attack's missing link. The truth is England are fresh from dealing with a whole attack of Ian Butlers. The skin colour might be different, but I'm sure the macho bowling would be about on a par. The West Indians can even boast that they're quicker than Butler.

IMO, what's far more likely to prove the NZ attack's missing link is one (or all) of the following:

* The 10kph of pace Chris Martin suddenly lost.
* Tuffey's fitness.
* Vettori's dubious lack of luck/talent/good tactics.
* Chris Cairns getting fired up about bowling for once, rather than glumly referring to it as 'my day job'.

good post & I agree entirely..............under the current circumstances........

I think that while the former 2 points re the bowling attack may still be up in the air, on recent evidence the latter 2 seem to be coming around..........

who knows perhaps having 2 less options (Styris & Oram) may force the last point into being..............

 

[anzac]

It's very hard to see Styris being dropped, with the injury concerns making it even less likely. He's had a very poor tour to date, but I doubt they'll just dump a player who's averaged 46 in his first 2 years of test cricket (without any Zim or Bang inflation). He's also recognised as having the only bowling action in the NZ side that lends itself towards reverse-swing.

I've heard suggestions today that Oram could play with a minimal bowling role, so I think the most likely batting order would look something like this:

Rigger
Flem
McCullum
Styris
Astle
McMillan
Oram
Cairns

The Macca situation is still a bit of a mystery, but there's a chance the team will let him make the call, and I'm guessing he'll choose to play on.

so far as Macca being allowed to make the call goes..............HELL NO!!!!!!!

IMO he's done nothing on this tour so far to warrant that consideration, and likewise he's not of the class / consistency of the likes of Lara, Tendulkar, Richardson...............

IMO when you only select 5 batsmen in the first place you MUST select on fitness & form, as this is supposedly where the majority of your runs should be scored from, or the innings set up for your lower order to prosper at least............so Macca & Styris out for me...........

I know I keep brining it up but Bracewll said that team selections & roles would be based upon what is seen as being best for the team, rather than any individual consideration, and that players would be considered for selection based upon fitness & form................

IMO Macca & Oram fail on fitness, while Macca, Styris & Papps all fail on form..........

bearing in mind that we are going into back to back tests playing Macca & Oram is too big a risk for the 3rd test IMO, where we may still have to win to draw the series.............

 

[Neil Pickup]

Oram unable to bowl at Headingley

To me, he was the pick of the bowlers by a margin at Lord's, so that's not good news.

Re Saggers - it was between him, Kirtley and Johnson in terms of the player type being looked for. Johnson's not 100% fit and not performing well (but Somerset have no-one else). Kirtley has gotta be disappointed to miss out.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Is Johnson unfit? He has been playing county cricket recently.

Since when were Kirby/Kabir/Mahmood higher in the pecking order than Kirtley/Johnson?

Selecting Caddick would definitely be a backward step, as would the selection of Bicknell.

Well Kabir took 5 wickets for england against SA at headingly last year. Also Him and Kirby were sent to the pace acadamy in india over the winter by the ECB which shows they are in their thoughts. Johnson has missed alot of the season through injury and is nowhere near fit enough for international cricket. I admit i missed out Kirtley but he seems to be pencilled in as a one day bowler more than a test one. As for Mahmood england have shown they will give young talent a go if they need to, Marsh is a big fan of his and as March is a selector too its not rocket science to think it wont be long till he makes it into an England Squad, especially if a few get injured.