*Official** New Zealand in England

[Neil Pickup]

Those ratings are insane, we have only won 5 of the last 15 test series (3 out of 12 before the Bangladesh series), and have only ever beaten Bangladesh in an ODI series away from home. Abysmal.

India are clearly a better team than England (having beaten them at home and not losing away, and doing the same against Australia) and a lot of others to.

Never said Hick or Ramprakash should be in the team, but players like S.Jones and Giles are far from our best and only get in the side because Fletcher likes them. Saggers, Kirtley and Johnson are far better than Jones and Brown is far better than Giles. Even Rod Marsh dislikes Fletcher because he could not care less what Marsh says and always thinks he is untouchable. Fletcher thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread but is actually a disgrace to the art of diplomacy and logical thinking. The ECB should be ashamed with themselves for ignoring his mindless attitude to important matters and complete disregard for other 'selectors' opinions.

Hands up who wants a return to 1997-8?

No-one else...

 

[marc71178]

Saggers, Kirtley and Johnson are far better than Jones and Brown is far better than Giles.

On County records maybe, but if we went on couty records, Vaughan and Trescothick wouldn't be in, neither would Harmison, Hussain, Butcher, Flintoff...

 

[a massive zebra]

On the few occasions Kirtley, Johnson and Saggers have played for England they have been considerably more successful than Jones and Giles has played for years but for the most part completely unpenitratively. Brown would probably do far better if selected and deserves a chance but there is no chance of that because he wants his spinners to be able to bat, a very naive attitude unless the bowlers are of almost identical ability.

 

[Neil Pickup]

On the few occasions Kirtley, Johnson and Saggers have played for England they have been considerably more successful than Jones and Giles has played for years but for the most part completely unpenitratively. Brown would probably do far better if selected and deserves a chance but there is no chance of that because he wants his spinners to be able to bat, a very naive attitude unless the bowlers are of almost identical ability.

Which they are... Giles = Brown = Keedy = Batty for all intents and purposes.

 

[a massive zebra]

Which they are... Giles = Brown = Keedy = Batty for all intents and purposes.

How do you know that if Brown and Keedy have not been given a chance? Brown has been a more effective bowler than any of those in the last few years but Batty was given the chance because he can bat. Keedy has improved dramatically recently but is clearly not of international standard.

There are plenty of other players who deserve a chance but are not given it because they are not friends with Fletcher.

 

[Tim]

If England have followed NZ's recent track record..they will know that is has been the weaker spinners that have caused problems.

Styris, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, McCullum etc have all hit towering sixes before & then gotten out next ball because they've tried to do it again.
If England can use Giles effectively and are prepared for him to take some tap, he could end up taking a few wickets also.

 

[Neil Pickup]

How do you know that if Brown and Keedy have not been given a chance? Brown has been a more effective bowler than any of those in the last few years but Batty was given the chance because he can bat. Keedy has improved dramatically recently but is clearly not of international standard.

There are plenty of other players who deserve a chance but are not given it because they are not friends with Fletcher.

No, Brown has more FC wickets because he plays at Northampton.

I'm quite happy with the way things are going.. so what would your fourteen be for Lord's - as I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[spofta]

I say England has no chance in the upcoming series against nz. i mean look at your captain for the first test. Marcus Trescothick. wat a joke. although there is one part of his name that is true and that is THICK. He is as Thick as a plank and wouldnt no how to runs consistently if it bit him in the ass. As for the rest of the squad. no comment as it would take to long. Marcus Vs Stephen 1st test i think we all no who will come out on top.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He is as Thick as a plank and wouldnt no how to runs consistently if it bit him in the ass.

I'm sure he can actually write coherently, however.

 

[a massive zebra]

so what would your fourteen be for Lord's - as I wouldn't change a thing.

1 Michael Vaughan (cpt)
2 Andrew Strauss
3 Mark Butcher
4 Graham Thorpe,
5 Nasser Hussain
6 Andrew Flintoff,
7 Geraint Jones (wk)
8 Martin Saggers
9 Matthew Hoggard
10 Steve Harmison
11 Jason Brown

12 Ben Smith
13 Richard Johnson
14 Paul Collingwood

If Vaughan is injured Hussain would captain the side, Butcher would open, Hussain at 3 and Smith would come in at number 5. The rest unchanged.

 

[Tim]

Good to see your doing NZ proud, spofta.

 

[anzac]

The selectors have got it wrong. Infact it's another Craig Cumming situation.

He may not necessarily play in the ODI's though..it would be tough for him to go straight into the business end of a tournament so I think Papps will take the gloves.

yeah I'd hope so..............from memory Papps kept for Canterbury in the Shield games while McCullum was involved in the ODI series v PAK..............& prior to this season & McCullum's arrival at Cant he was their 1st choice 'keeper - he may be a bit rusty but I'd expect him to get some glove time in the Tour games now that it's definate that McCullum will be returning home..........

just a small point but IMO Bond's departure & missing the final ODIs seems to make a bit of a joke out of his squad selection in the first instance, particularly when the initial statements were that he was being 'saved' / 'targeted' for the Tri ODI series...........so we have taken him on the tour for about 4 ODI games?????? No disagreement re his decision to return for the birth but it's not as if the timing would have been unknown b4 squad selection...........

 

[anzac]

Good to see your doing NZ proud, spofta.

yep.............the 'terraces' are alive & well & living everywhere / anywhere nowadays........

 

[Kent]

just a small point but IMO Bond's departure & missing the final ODIs seems to make a bit of a joke out of his squad selection in the first instance, particularly when the initial statements were that he was being 'saved' / 'targeted' for the Tri ODI series...........so we have taken him on the tour for about 4 ODI games?????? No disagreement re his decision to return for the birth but it's not as if the timing would have been unknown b4 squad selection...........

You're not the only one confused about that. It seems Bond has gone from building towards the tri-series to now eyeing the 2nd test "like we were always targeting."

IMO I think they're being deliberately vague about Bond. I'm getting the impression they still don't really know when he'll be right for international cricket, but refuse to put it bluntly by saying 'we'll pick him when he's bowling well enough'.

That's understandable for keeping Bond's morale high, but it also covers their backsides for a while after all the technical work they believe will make him better than ever.

 

[Richard Rash]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
The selectors have got it wrong. Infact it's another Craig Cumming situation.

He may not necessarily play in the ODI's though..it would be tough for him to go straight into the business end of a tournament so I think Papps will take the gloves.

Cumming filled astles gap well towards the end of the pakistan series

 

[anzac]

You're not the only one confused about that. It seems Bond has gone from building towards the tri-series to now eyeing the 2nd test "like we were always targeting."

IMO I think they're being deliberately vague about Bond. I'm getting the impression they still don't really know when he'll be right for international cricket, but refuse to put it bluntly by saying 'we'll pick him when he's bowling well enough'.

That's understandable for keeping Bond's morale high, but it also covers their backsides for a while after all the technical work they believe will make him better than ever.

yeah but to select him for the tour with the ODIs as the primary target, yet knowing that he was likely to pull out???? I can't see the benefit to the squad or the series, particularly as the named replacements for the ODIs do not include a strike bowler!!!!

as we talked about earlier - I have enough trouble believing that a 14 man squad generates enough competition for places as it is - let alone knowing that one player is likely to end up being unavailable for most of the tour international matches!!!!!!

 

[anzac]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
The selectors have got it wrong. Infact it's another Craig Cumming situation.

He may not necessarily play in the ODI's though..it would be tough for him to go straight into the business end of a tournament so I think Papps will take the gloves.

Cumming filled astles gap well towards the end of the pakistan series

?????????

 

[southern man]

Hopkins is a fine batsman and while his stats dont say it he always contributes.
Anyway at best he will bat at 8.
i would hate to see Papps keep i hate seeing part timers doing half ass jobs.

 

[anzac]

Hopkins is a fine batsman and while his stats dont say it he always contributes.
Anyway at best he will bat at 8.
i would hate to see Papps keep i hate seeing part timers doing half ass jobs.

he's only a part timer as a result of McCullum moving to Cant this last season.........so he's a helluva lot better than the likes of Sinclair, Vincent & Dravid, Maher etc.............

 

[southern man]

No actually Hopkins was still the keeper in the 4day games for Canty.
Papps was keeping in the one dayers because he was adequate and it hepled the balance of the team.