*Official** New Zealand in England

[Loony BoB]

I'd think Fleming would target Trescothick because of his inexperience, but if I was Fleming I'd concentrate on more important things (like not dropping any bloody catches in the slips).

I'm glad you're not Fleming! Fleming's talent is that he CAN target an opposing captain - and still make a catch just as well as any of his teammates.

MOD EDIT - Part of Quoted Section deleted

 

[Neil Pickup]

Sky Piracy/Decoding is a very, very large no-no.

 

[anzac]

Ok so we get underway tomorrow with both teams having to make some changes in the Openers...........

my pick would be for ENG to replace Vaughan with Strauss & leave their lineup alone as much as possible, unless they go for a bowling change & drop Giles (but I can't see that happening with Vettori being picked for NZL - ENG will want to cover the spin option)..............

if ENG do pick Strauss to open then I'd conceed that would have them in a stronger position than the NZL batting order, as Flem, Styris & Astle will all be out of position..............I'd be really surprised if the promoted Butcher & had Collingwood at 5 as this create more disruption than NZL already faces.........

IMO Flem WILL target Trescothick / Butcher - he's more or less obliged to in an attempt to gain some dominance over his opposition - but not in the same manner as he took on Smith - he knew Smith was fairly strong mentally so he had to do something a bit drastic to shake him & I don't think such measures will be required v Trescothick / Butcher as neither are experienced in Captaincy at International level.............the one major advantage NZL does have...........

if Flem is able to pull this off as Opener we may see this as his new role in the side - to lead from the front as per Smith in both forms of the game.........but again I think our hit & miss middle will be even more exposed to the loss of early wickets & would prefer to see an anchor at #3 to provide some stability as Dravid or Butcher........I'd rather see Astle at #3 than Styris even though it means a jump of 2 spots as he has some similar experience in ODIs, whereas IMO Styris is at full streatch at #4...........I also have some concern as to how Flem & Richo are going to form a partnership re quick singles etc.........esp if Flem decides to 'accelerate the game'..........

funnily enough I don't feel that the batting will decide the outcome - I have a feeling it will be down to which attack gets it right and how they are backed up in the field & by the Captain..........

 

[anzac]

and lastly I'm ****ed that I won't be getting to see any of the series apart from what may be on the news - unless the AUS tour is pulled................

 

[Grubb]

Some solid thoughts there ANZAC.

It will be interesting to see how much of an influence Fleming's captaincy will have. One concern I have that he used to have a tendency to misuse Vettori, by setting defensive fields, by mystifyingly asking for leg-stump lines, and by not always showing confidence in him.

However, that was more than four years ago (the last time I was able to watch a test match involving NZ. The curse of living in Japan), so I'd be interested to hear what people have to say about the kinds of fields Vettori's been set recently, and the lines he's been been asked to bowl.

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[anzac]

Some solid thoughts there ANZAC.

It will be interesting to see how much of an influence Fleming's captaincy will have. One concern I have that he used to have a tendency to misuse Vettori, by setting defensive fields, by mystifyingly asking for leg-stump lines, and by not always showing confidence in him.

However, that was more than four years ago (the last time I was able to watch a test match involving NZ. The curse of living in Japan), so I'd be interested to hear what people have to say about the kinds of fields Vettori's been set recently, and the lines he's been been asked to bowl.

Can anyone enlighten me?

bloody hell we are getting to be very intercontinental nowadays aren't we!!!!!

belated welcomes to the show.............

so far as the field settings are concerned I think Vettori has been used as a containment type bowler (with field settings accordingly), because he isn't a big turner of the ball; pitches outside the subcontinent are even less prone to any real turn recently (as evidenced by all the flat batting tracks that abound everywhere); and Vettori has not been able to take wickets with flight, the arm ball or bounce - he's all bark with no bite.............even in ideal conditions with attacking fields & lines to bowl..........but has still managed to look the part until he recently started to throw it in flat....

 

[southern man]

while I'm sure Southern Man will soon be riding in (with Tonto) to push Hopkins' claims.

Ofcourse i am all for Hopkins to be flown over if Brendon needs to go home. But if his wife is having a baby he wont be back for to long so Papps while i think he is a not very good keeper will do for a match or two.

But if Brendon went down injured in the first match then i think that we should fly Hopkins over.

Bond, McCullum to miss part of one-day series
20 May 2004

Two impending births will see fast bowler Shane Bond and wicketkeeper Brendon McCullum miss the latter stages of the New Zealand's one-day cricket tri-series campaign in July.


Both will return home early to be with their wives for the birth of their first children, New Zealand manager Lindsay Crocker confirmed yesterday.

Bond will miss the final round robin match and the July 10 final, if New Zealand make it, while McCullum will miss the last three round robin matches and the final. It will leave New Zealand with just 13 players for their final two matches.

The pair will become the third and fourth new fathers in the New Zealand side this year after Craig McMillan and Nathan Astle.

Bond's involvement assumes he fully recovers from his back stress fracture injury which has kept him out of today's first test, although he is seemingly on track to return for the second test in a fortnight.

New Zealand play England and the West Indies three times each in the tri-series, starting on June 24.

Wicketkeeper Gareth Hopkins was yesterday named as cover for McCullum and will join the squad of 15 along with Hamish Marshall and Chris Harris after the test series.

Hopkins got the jump on former one-day gloveman Chris Nevin by playing the one-day series for New Zealand A against Sri Lanka A last month.

Test specialists Mark Richardson and Chris Martin will return home after the third test.

New Zealand one-day squad: Stephen Fleming (captain), Nathan Astle, Michael Papps, Hamish Marshall, Scott Styris, Craig McMillan, Chris Harris, Brendon McCullum, Chris Cairns, Jacob Oram, Kyle Mills, Daniel Vettori, Daryl Tuffey, Shane Bond, Gareth Hopkins.

Good old Gareth will play international cricket.

 

[southern man]

That qouted story is from www.stuff.co.nz

 

[a massive zebra]

Duncan Fletcher seems to completely discard good players who dont fit into his personality "ideal". Isnt a good coach supposed to blend the different personalities of the best players together rather than simply discard the good players that he doesn't particularly like?

Fletcher is an arrogant tyrant who does not give two hoots for anybodys opinions. When push comes to shove, he has the final say in selections and will only select players with the right personality - thus discarding good players who deserve to be in the side to the detrement of the national team.

 

[PY]

Any reason for this rant?

 

[tooextracool]

Duncan Fletcher seems to completely discard good players who dont fit into his personality "ideal". Isnt a good coach supposed to blend the different personalities of the best players together rather than simply discard the good players that he doesn't particularly like?

which is why andy caddick was a consistent feature in the side from when he took over till caddick got injured and also why hussain and thorpe are in the team amongst the "playstation" members

 

[badgerhair]

Any reason for this rant?

Possibly the inability to understand that the difference between a reasonable first-class cricketer and a Test player is mostly to do with character.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Kent]

Apologies Southern Man. As the lone ranger for Hopkins' merits (and a lack of faith in Papps), clearly the NZ selectors have given you a boost.

That doesn't mean we should be happy about it though. Ross Taylor misses out on a squad for a guy whose domestic OD average is about 20? As Tim suggested, Papps would give us a better gloveman than one of the WC finalists!!

At least Hopkins might be a cheap fare... http://www.ldcc.org.uk/Players_seeking_clubs.htm

 

[Kent]

if Flem is able to pull this off as Opener we may see this as his new role in the side - to lead from the front as per Smith in both forms of the game.........but again I think our hit & miss middle will be even more exposed to the loss of early wickets & would prefer to see an anchor at #3 to provide some stability as Dravid or Butcher........I'd rather see Astle at #3 than Styris even though it means a jump of 2 spots as he has some similar experience in ODIs, whereas IMO Styris is at full streatch at #4.

Bracewell will in fact bat Astle at #3.

Fleming LBW Hoggard (falling over) 0
Richardson 0*
Astle LBW Hoggard (leading with the pad) 0
Styris c&b Hoggard (slogging out of trouble) 0
McMillan c Jones b Harmison (wofting at a wide half-volley) 0

An insight into my nightmares. If I put it on paper it won't come true....

 

[Tim]

The selectors have got it wrong. Infact it's another Craig Cumming situation.

Hopkins is a good keeper, but I think in ODI's you need your keeper to score a decent amount of runs & his average in OD's for N.D, Canterbury & Otago is only 22 with just 3 50's to his name.

His FC stats are pretty good however, an average of 28 with a highest score of 175*...like I said, he's probably a better test player.

He may not necessarily play in the ODI's though..it would be tough for him to go straight into the business end of a tournament so I think Papps will take the gloves.

 

[marc71178]

so that makes him one of England's top no.3's of all time?

Have you seen his record and compared to the rest of England number s over time?!

So does that make by your logic make Graeme Smith one of South Africa's greatest ever Test opener's already by virture of the stack of runs he has scored?

I don't see the link, but at the end of the day, his record isn't that bad and certainly stacks up favourably against others.

 

[marc71178]

I'd rate him as one of the top 3 keepers in NZ, but with the bat it's doubtful he'd be any better than Robbie Hart in tests..maybe a bit better.

But surely with the strength in depth that your team has, his batting shouldn't be a problem if he's a good keeper?

 

[marc71178]

Fletcher is an arrogant tyrant who does not give two hoots for anybodys opinions. When push comes to shove, he has the final say in selections and will only select players with the right personality - thus discarding good players who deserve to be in the side to the detrement of the national team.

Detriment of the team?!!!!!

How many people would prefer to go back to the days of Lloyd and a middle order with Ramprakash and Hick in there?!

Not many.

5 years ago we were the worst side around, now we're ranked at 3 in both forms...

 

[Tim]

I see Macca has grown another handle-bar mustache especially for this tour.

 

[a massive zebra]

Detriment of the team?!!!!!

How many people would prefer to go back to the days of Lloyd and a middle order with Ramprakash and Hick in there?!

Not many.

5 years ago we were the worst side around, now we're ranked at 3 in both forms...

Those ratings are insane, we have only won 5 of the last 15 test series (3 out of 12 before the Bangladesh series), and have only ever beaten Bangladesh in an ODI series away from home. Abysmal.

India are clearly a better team than England (having beaten them at home and not losing away, and doing the same against Australia) and a lot of others to.

Never said Hick or Ramprakash should be in the team, but players like S.Jones and Giles are far from our best and only get in the side because Fletcher likes them. Saggers, Kirtley and Johnson are far better than Jones and Brown is far better than Giles. Fletcher has been responsible for some of the worst selections in history, with players such as Schofield, Sidebottom, Snape and Dawson getting into the side even though they struggle to hold down a county place, just because Fletcher enjoys their company. Even Rod Marsh dislikes Fletcher because he could not care less what Marsh says and always thinks he is untouchable. Fletcher thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread but is actually a disgrace to the art of diplomacy and logical thinking. The ECB should be ashamed with themselves for ignoring his mindless attitude to important matters and complete disregard for other 'selectors' opinions.