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**Official** New Zealand in England

Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
This injury to Southee is worrying. Injuries to an international cricketer of his age and when (possibly) he is still growing should be treated very carefully. I seem to remember some others who made debuts as teenagers; Cairns, Vettori and Crowe. They all got lovely injuries as well. Injuries was the main reason I didn't want Southee playing international cricket full time at his age. I accept he is good enough and I was wrong there, he doesn't need to do alot of developing to his game, but injuries was my other concern. IMO he should be rested for the first test. This isn't a series we are likely to win so there is no point risking a teenager with a recent back injury. Also, Mason is a decent bowler and can do a job.

My conservative injury views on the golden boy to get attacked in 5...4....3....
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
gettingbetter said:
Never hurt Warney, Taylor, Boon, Gatting and many others. Its not like he is Mark Cosgrove and his performances are being compromised due to weight.
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These are all of previous generations - things have changed in recent times (ie, the last 10-15 years or so). Warne could conceivably be the last of those whose weight-control is truly poor to play international cricket.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
gettingbetter said:
As for the ages and starting date of career, how can you not give leeway for Patel when you make such accomodations for other players in the international sphere - Flintoff and Atherton being the most prominent.
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It's not a case of not giving leeway, as I say if Patel starts to score consistently we can completely forget those first 3 or 4 seasons where he played the odd game here and there. But until he does, his case isn't remotely comparable to Flintoff\Atherton\Tendulkar\Imran\etc. The whole point there is that a small number of early games are meaningless due to a massively larger later proportion. With Patel that hasn't happened... yet at least.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
FBU said:
I consider this poor.
Hoggard's last 12 Tests
31 wickets at 41.35 econ 3.34 s/r 74.10
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It is poor, but really I don't think those figures neccessarily tell us a great deal. Hoggard played, essentially, a single Test the last home summer, and could easily have been a huge success had he played (he took 5-86 in the one game he did). He started last winter very well too, taking 6-84, though admittedly most of that came in his opening spell.

Then 8 of the previous 9 (Adelaide 2006/07 the odd one out) were all poor too. But I'm not really all that surprised: these were almost all very flat pitches, good batsmen and not-particularly-good cricket-balls. Hoggard has almost always struggled under such circumstances.

Passing-up on him this summer could be as costly as missing-out on him due to injury last ended-up being.
what we are looking for is something like this
Sidebottom 12 Tests
53 wickets at 25.39 econ 2.81 s/r 54.10

or
Steyn last 12 Tests
78 wickets at 16.24 econ 3.36 s/r 28.90
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Obviously. Thing is, though, you can't magic bowlers who can bowl like that out of thin-air - certainly, Anderson (the current Hoggard-alternative) is not remotely this good. You've got to pick the best of what's available to you.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
FBU said:
I consider this poor.
Hoggard's last 12 Tests
31 wickets at 41.35 econ 3.34 s/r 74.10
Click to expand...
Yeah, on the face of it it does look quite ordinary, but the last series he got through without breaking down in (aside from NZ) was Pakistan in 2006, so I'd assume he's been compromised by injury for the majority of that period.

There is the chance that his decline is terminal, of course, but as he's a medium-fast swing bowler rather than one who was reliant on extravagent pace I'd hope we could get another 3 or 4 years out of him yet if he's carefully managed.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
NZTailender said:
Wait, weren't you calling for Southee's inclusion a while ago before the home series?
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That was probably Athlai. I remember saying I wanted his first test to be next year against the West Indies. I didn't mind him playing a couple of muck around 20/20s but no fully fledged tests. I remember it vividly because I had to say "I was wrong" to Athlai on two players, Taylor and Southee. My ego was gutted. :p

EDIT: I know my above post (the one NZT quoted) may sound OTT but if another one starts getting injured I think I might just cry.
 
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BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Hoggard in the XII

From cricinfo:

England squad: Michael Vaughan (capt), Alastair Cook, Andrew Strauss, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood, Tim Ambrose (wk), Stuart Broad, Ryan Sidebottom, Monty Panesar, James Anderson, Matthew Hoggard.

Looks straight fight between him & Jimmy A then.

No cover for Colly, which is a slight surprise with his shoulder, but it does stop the selectors having to make a decision as to who's next in line should he recover for Thursday.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Starting to wonder if this series will turn into an injury fest. Would certainly make it interesting with everybodys B team on the field.

Test in four days, starting to get nervous. Last year most of our top five would have been classed as A team players or prospects. Least there's no Flintoff to make life fun for them.
 
S

sportychic33

State 12th Man
Flem274* said:
Starting to wonder if this series will turn into an injury fest. Would certainly make it interesting with everybodys B team on the field.
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i'm waiting for Oram to get injured. Really we should place bets on when it will happen and how serious it will be. My money is on that it will be something to do with his Left Hand Side (inside word).
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
BoyBrumby said:
From cricinfo:

England squad: Michael Vaughan (capt), Alastair Cook, Andrew Strauss, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood, Tim Ambrose (wk), Stuart Broad, Ryan Sidebottom, Monty Panesar, James Anderson, Matthew Hoggard.

Looks straight fight between him & Jimmy A then.

No cover for Colly, which is a slight surprise with his shoulder, but it does stop the selectors having to make a decision as to who's next in line should he recover for Thursday.
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My money remains on Anderson, but heartening to see Hoggard included in the squad.

Evidently Collingwood's injury isn't as bad as first feared.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
sportychic33 said:
That is a perfect option. He hasn't injured his left knee in his international career yet.
I'm going 3rd test - Side Strain (left hand side).
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Good pick. Was going to guesstimate he'd be shot by someone but he has to stay on the field long enough for that to happen.
 
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