**Official** New Zealand in England

[NZTailender]

In ODIs all I'm concerned about is the next World Cup. I don't mind who wins and who loses in between. I know a good few others, especially those from Australia, don't think the same way, but that's one of the few things I generally think the England selectors get right. If they never pick Lewis again I'll be happy. Certainly wouldn't be if he was 6 years younger mind.

I say it again - how many times have you watched him? If it's just in the series in NZ, that's unfair.

Lewis >>>>>>>>>> Mascarenhas in the First-Class game, by miles and miles. But Mascarenhas > Lewis in the one-day game. Don't be fooled by their relatively brief ODI careers. Yes, Lewis has done better in ODIs but Mascarenhas has been far better at the domestic level.

At the very most, you should be 'preparing' for a World Cup (and again at the most) about 2 years out. 1 1/2 year would be more preferable. You should pick your best bowlers now, not who might be the best in 3 years times. When you take injuries and form into account, this is just silly.

I've seen him bowl at home in ODI's for England, as well as in NZ. He's impressed me as much as Bopara has with the ball.

Mascarenhas has done far better at the domestic level? I can't go on having seen every domestic List a match but statistics tell me there's not a lot between them. Very little in fact.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Mascarenhas is one of the best one-day bowlers in this country. Simple as. If you're not going to pick him you're going to pick lots of poor bowlers. As England have done very often in recent years. Anderson and Tremlett are both very poor.

Anderson is only poor because he's so unreliable. Sadly for England, he'll bowl sublimely once every 10 games which means that he stays in the mind of the selectors. Certainly, Anderson at his best is a MUCH better, more penetrating and useful bowler than Mascarenhas.

Tremlett offers something which none of the other England bowlers do, and that's a nagging rib-high length at an awkward pace. Broad should be able to do this with his height, and does at some points but without as much regularity as Tremlett. Mascarenhas on the other hand offers a "Chris Harris" style reliability, which can prove useful when conditions allow it, but can also mean that he goes for runs very easily when playing in batting conditions. For what it's worth, I think Graham Napier is the only player in England who's close to Mascarenhas in terms of hitting and bowling ability.

I'm also not quite sure how you can effectively say your opinion is more valid than mine when I've seen all of these players plenty of times in various different locations throughout England and New Zealand. You stagger me sometimes with your intransigence.

 

[Richard]

Anderson is only poor because he's so unreliable. Sadly for England, he'll bowl sublimely once every 10 games which means that he stays in the mind of the selectors. Certainly, Anderson at his best is a MUCH better, more penetrating and useful bowler than Mascarenhas.

Tremlett offers something which none of the other England bowlers do, and that's a nagging rib-high length at an awkward pace. Broad should be able to do this with his height, and does at some points but without as much regularity as Tremlett. Mascarenhas on the other hand offers a "Chris Harris" style reliability, which can prove useful when conditions allow it, but can also mean that he goes for runs very easily when playing in batting conditions. For what it's worth, I think Graham Napier is the only player in England who's close to Mascarenhas in terms of hitting and bowling ability.

I'm also not quite sure how you can effectively say your opinion is more valid than mine when I've seen all of these players plenty of times in various different locations throughout England and New Zealand. You stagger me sometimes with your intransigence.

I've seen the lot of 'em loads too.

Graham Napier is a totally different bowler to Mascarenhas - an expensive wicket-taker, whereas Mascarenhas is an economical but usually fairly unthreatening bowler. In one-day cricket, though, economy >>>>>>>> wicket-taking deliveries.

Chris Tremlett doesn't offer much against good ODI batsmen. He's very poor.

New Zealand have been worse than I've ever seen I think today BTW.

 

[freckleslol]

What on earth.. McCullum's scored about 40% of our runs and he only batted three overs

 

[NZTailender]

Relying on Flynn, Elliott and Hopkins to save us now. Let the good times roll.

 

[Richard]

At the very most, you should be 'preparing' for a World Cup (and again at the most) about 2 years out. 1 1/2 year would be more preferable. You should pick your best bowlers now, not who might be the best in 3 years times. When you take injuries and form into account, this is just silly.

I've seen him bowl at home in ODI's for England, as well as in NZ. He's impressed me as much as Bopara has with the ball.

Mascarenhas has done far better at the domestic level? I can't go on having seen every domestic List a match but statistics tell me there's not a lot between them. Very little in fact.

Between Mascarenhas and Bopara? You're kidding me right? Bopara is a woeful bowler, Mascarenhas as I say is one of the best in the country. If all you've seen of him is the series in NZ I'm afraid I find you've been misled. He was slogged on small, misshapen grounds and that isn't a good way to judge a ODI bowler. On decent sized grounds on anything other than utter roads he's an excellent bowler. Travsety that he's not going to get the chance to bowl 10 overs for nothing today against this crap.

 

[_Ed_]

We appear to be in a spot of bother.

 

[NZTailender]

I've seen the lot of 'em loads too.

Graham Napier is a totally different bowler to Mascarenhas - an expensive wicket-taker, whereas Mascarenhas is an economical but usually fairly unthreatening bowler. In one-day cricket, though, economy >>>>>>>> wicket-taking deliveries.

Chris Tremlett doesn't offer much against good ODI batsmen. He's very poor.

New Zealand have been worse than I've ever seen I think today BTW.

Mascarenhas shouldn't be considered as a replacement for a specialist bowler, though. Chris Tremlett is just that - not saying he should be playing (as I said earlier) but if Sidebottom was fit, Mascarenhas wouldn't be in the side. He's not a better batsman than Bopara (imo) and not a better bowler than Lewis, or even the much maligned Tremlett. He's your Johan van der Wath really.

 

[NZTailender]

Between Mascarenhas and Bopara? You're kidding me right? Bopara is a woeful bowler, Mascarenhas as I say is one of the best in the country. If all you've seen of him is the series in NZ I'm afraid I find you've been misled. He was slogged on small, misshapen grounds and that isn't a good way to judge a ODI bowler. On decent sized grounds on anything other than utter roads he's an excellent bowler. Travsety that he's not going to get the chance to bowl 10 overs for nothing today against this crap.

Between Mascarenhas and Lewis, ffs.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Ordinary shot from McCullum, very nice AFL style catch from KP though.

Aussie Rules huge in Pietermaritzburg, I hear.

Anyway, nice bowling from Broad there. Didn't give Taylor anything to drive, then brings one back in to bowl him through the gate. Ordinary shot, but one born of what'd gone before.

 

[Richard]

Mascarenhas shouldn't be considered as a replacement for a specialist bowler, though. Chris Tremlett is just that - not saying he should be playing (as I said earlier) but if Sidebottom was fit, Mascarenhas wouldn't be in the side. He's not a better batsman than Bopara (imo) and not a better bowler than Lewis, or even the much maligned Tremlett. He's your Johan van der Wath really.

As I say - I think you vastly underestimate Mascarenhas' bowling. I saw this a decade ago with Mark Ealham. Just because he can bat a bit (not all that well) people think "but he CAN'T be a specialist bowler!" FFS.

Tremlett and Mascarenhas play for the same team and Tremlett has never even looked like being a better bowler in the one-day game. He's simply a better bowler in the First-Class game, and because of the typical mixing-up of the two game-forms people think he has to be better at the one-day too. It's so annoying.

 

[NZTailender]

As I say - I think you vastly underestimate Mascarenhas' bowling. I saw this a decade ago with Mark Ealham. Just because he can bat a bit (not all that well) people think "but he CAN'T be a specialist bowler!" FFS.

I've seen him bowl. I've compared him van der Wath. If you're picking him on bowling alone you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.

 

[Richard]

I think you are. And TBH, I think I know more about Mascarenhas than you. That's not a crime - you probably know more about Dirk Nannes than me too. But that's the way it is IMO.

 

[NZTailender]

I think you are. And TBH, I think I know more about Mascarenhas than you. That's not a crime - you probably know more about Dirk Nannes than me too. But that's the way it is IMO.

What? What has this got to do with anything? I'm arguing you can't pick Mascarenhas as one of the top 3 seamers in the side to be a wicket taker.

 

[Richard]

I'm arguing that this is one-day cricket and wicket-taking isn't terribly important. I'm not expecting Mascarenhas to bowl crateloads of wicket-taking deliveries. You can be one of the top seamers without being a wicket-taker.

 

[NZTailender]

I'm arguing that this is one-day cricket and wicket-taking isn't terribly important. I'm not expecting Mascarenhas to bowl crateloads of wicket-taking deliveries.

Then you can't realistically say that Mascarenhas>>>Lewis. Their roles in the side are different and should be treated as such.

 

[99*]

Now resorted to watching Terminator 2 over this.

Must wonder, is this one of NZ's worst tours in modern times (since 2000)?

And for some fun, who will be NZ's coach after this tour?

 

[Richard]

Then you can't realistically say that Mascarenhas>>>Lewis. Their roles in the side are different and should be treated as such.

Why not? As I said, Lewis' ODI career to date flatters him just a little. He's a decent one-day bowler but no more than that. He has been flogged more times than he should be in domestic cricket and Mascarenhas hasn't. That Lewis might take a few more wickets than Mascarenhas doesn't really matter to me.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Graham Napier is a totally different bowler to Mascarenhas - an expensive wicket-taker, whereas Mascarenhas is an economical but usually fairly unthreatening bowler. In one-day cricket, though, economy >>>>>>>> wicket-taking deliveries.

Napier - Economy rate (One Day) = 5.1, (20:20) = 7.08
Napier - Strike rate (One Day) = 29.0, (20:20) = 18.5
Mascarenhas - Economy rate (One Day) = 4.22, (20:20) = 7.49
Mascarenhas - Strike rate (One Day) = 35.5, (20:20) = 15.4

Its hardly a vast difference in economy you're talking here, is it? In fact, Napier is the more economical 20:20 bowler, which is HIGHLY relevant in this comparison when 20:20 is probably where Mascarenhas will get more game time. Now, I'd still select Mascarenhas over Napier as he's a better batsman, but just because you say Mascarenhas is a better bowler, doesn't make it true.

 

[Richard]

Must wonder, is this one of NZ's worst tours in modern times (since 2000)?

This is certainly one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a ODI-standard team. Neither Broad nor Tremlett have bowled particularly well, it's mostly been short, but they've just not been able to hit a thing. If they bowl this way against the South Africans they'll almost certainly get utterly smashed. Disappointing from NZ this match, very much so.