Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
If he does we'll see when the time comes. I'm less than sure myself currently.
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**Official** New Zealand in England
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Woodster
International Captain
On the Mascarenhas issue, it is an interesting one. I think he is classed as a bowling all-rounder and generally economical. His variations make him a difficult bowler to cart round the field in the middle overs. I think you do need such canny bowlers in a ODI line-up, but I also think there needs to be a balance with wicket-taking bowlers. I like the fact we have three specialist bowlers, who the 3 should be is open to debate.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Umar Gul's a very poor ODI bowler. While I'm sure the odd bowler (like Vettori, a spinner) might have some success bowling the exact same way, the requirements for a seamer are totally different and Twenty20 success or failure is irrelevant to OD success or failure and will remain so.
James
Cricket Web Owner
The good old Gavin Larsen is probably a prime example of a bowler who does exactly that.
What a complete disaster this entire tour looks like ending up being. I guess the most worrying thing is that there's no-one back home pushing for a spot in the team except obviously for the injured Franklin and Oram.
freckleslol
School Boy/Girl Captain
we won the rugby at least; only thing left for me now is to watch Southee bat with his bizarre technique
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Wicket taking does slow the run rate. If you're bustling along at 6 an over and you lose 2-3 wickets the run rate goes down because the situation of the match changes.
You become more cautious, because you don't want to lose any more wickets soon.
The most effective way to take wickets is the same as any cricket - bowl at the batsmens weakness, bowl on a good length or try and trap the batsmen into creating a false stroke.
And my take wickets to be a front-line bowler 'mentality' is no more baffling than choosing players 3 years ahead of a World Cup based on playing them in that tournament.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Well with the lack of domestic cricket going on thats nigh on impossible. our domestic scene is so dire though, would kill for one like the Aussie's or the Pom's.
Athlai
Not Terrible
2 of their best players as well. Poaching?
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
On the game at hand, we can only rue what could've been. Having Oram would be a big bonus (instead of Hopkins) while I think Flynn should be coming in ahead of Styris.
Ideally for the next match I'd like to see:
1. How
2. McCullum
3. Taylor
4. Flynn
5. Styris
6. Elliott
7. Oram
8. Vettori
9. Mills
10. Southee
11. Mason
Ideally for the next match I'd like to see:
1. How
2. McCullum
3. Taylor
4. Flynn
5. Styris
6. Elliott
7. Oram
8. Vettori
9. Mills
10. Southee
11. Mason
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Not really. If the bowling continues to be wayward, it'll continue to get smashed. That hasn't been the case today, it's been in the same areas throughout, the scoring-rate has been restricted throughout, and the wickets have come.
Of course. And to bowl economically too, naturally.
They're hardly remotely analogous TBH. As I say, I accept that some people, Australians especially, don't like it, but that's the way I'd do things. If you value each ODI, then you'd pick the best team to try and win it. But I don't. The only ODI results I care about are those in World Cups, and I want to use every ODI outside them to try and build a team for the ODI where results matter to me.
However, a bowler is a bowler. If a good one-day bowler has to be a wicket-taker to you, that's an attitude I find baffling. It makes no sense to me. Because a one-day game lasts 50 overs only, and if you bowl economically you'll restrict the total. And if you keep bowling economically, wickets will fall to boot (not that it matters whether they do or don't). Equally, you can restrict the total by bowling a side out in 30 overs, and that's fair enough too if you can do it.
James
Cricket Web Owner
I think we just have to accept that they're through a massive re-building phase, and to not expect a lot from them, and that it's going to take time for things to come together.
As I've mentioned before, I believe this team is easily the weakest side to leave NZ in 20 years. I challenge anyone to find a weaker NZ side than this one playing today.
Things will eventually come right, it's a young team, and time is on their sides.
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Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well 1) it's only substitute fielders and 2) I've always said England (and Scotland, and Wales) and Ireland are places I'm happy to coexist cricketingly.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
And on another matter, I'm gonna do something I should have done a long time ago.
*Goes to find the ignore function*
Athlai
Not Terrible
The touring team isn't that bad, heck if form and injury wasn't against us then we'd still field a decent enough team. However this team playing today? Dire. Our top order is our biggest strength, nuff said.
James
Cricket Web Owner
We've been talking injuries, injuries, if only this, if only that for years now with the Black Caps. A bit of a lame excuse IMO.
Add Franklin, Oram, Ryder back in and it definitely has a stronger look to it though I agree.
steds
Hall of Fame Member
What if he were to take a catch? Would you not say it's immoral for England to be using someone who isn't even qualified to play for them in a role, however small, that could possibly influence the outcome of the match?
Woodster
International Captain
If you field a bowling attack full of Mascarenhas type bowlers, then, imo, they are likely to get smashed probably during the powerplays and again at the end of the innings as it's likely they will have plenty of wickets in the shed, by working the ball round in the middle overs after a flying start.
By the same theory, if an attack consisted purely of wicket-taking bowlers, then more boundaries than you may expect will be leaked in the middle section of the game, as well as the usual flurry early and in the last 10, dependent on how many wickets have been lost or if you have bowled the side out.
My point is you need to select a combination of such bowlers in order to get the best out of them. You can be a good ODI bowler if you fit into either of these two categories.
By the same theory, if an attack consisted purely of wicket-taking bowlers, then more boundaries than you may expect will be leaked in the middle section of the game, as well as the usual flurry early and in the last 10, dependent on how many wickets have been lost or if you have bowled the side out.
My point is you need to select a combination of such bowlers in order to get the best out of them. You can be a good ODI bowler if you fit into either of these two categories.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
There's a reason you've been talking injuries, injuries for years now. They keep on happening. And no team will ever be much good if 4 or 5 of their best players keep getting injured all the time.
Honestly, think how much less good Australia would've been between 2004 and 2006 if McGrath, Ponting, Warne and Langer had been being constantly injured.