*Official* New Zealand in England 2015

[hendrix]

T Mac is the most unlikely, ungainly, plain ugly yet extremely loveable nearly test class batsman.
-Back foot defense non-existent Guptill
-Cut down on shots to reduce risks so he has no shots except risky straight drive Guptill
-No idea what he should do anymore so he just prods or lunges in general direction of ball with no technique or confidence Guptill

These three things have always been the same thing - he has a profound inability to read the length of the ball. Anything back of a length and he's still prodding forward.

 

[Moss]

Usually I'd be dirty on this sort of logic, but the drop at 1st slip was as easy as any chance gets.

I also don't think he's a top three Test batsman. Let him take Baz's spot at 5 when he's done, and have it for the next 4-5 years

Yup, while I would open with Guptill on this tour (mainly to see if he has indeed improved his game rather than a firm belief he will come good), I think he could do a good job at no.5 once McCullum goes. Baz's first stint as a no.5 batsman in 2008 (on the England and Australia tours) didn't go off that well but when he returned to the position in 2013 it made a great difference to the side.

 

[Kippax]

Guptill at 5? Weak cut shot for a 5 or 6, habitually prods forward to balls back of a length as Hendrix says, never going to be a particularly nimble or deft touch player of spin, renowned for scoring bulk of runs by pounding overpitched deliveries to the fence, or driving powerfully on the up in white ball cricket. That doesn't sound like much of a red ball No. 5 for us at all tbh.

 

[Athlai]

Guptill at 5 would keep a 40 year old Franklin away from making yet another comeback.

All aboard the no Guptill outside the top order train. Choo choo.

 

[Niall]

Unless Nesham or Corey are injured then I see no reason to be disrupting things with the likes of Guptil, or more depressingly James ffs Franklin in 2015. Have both been ruled out of the England tour?

 

[Athlai]

Unless Nesham or Corey are injured then I see no reason to be disrupting things with the likes of Guptil, or more depressingly James ffs Franklin in 2015. Have both been ruled out of the England tour?

Neesham was injured towards the end of the WC and Corey is injured now. Not 100% on Neesham's fitness.

 

[SteveNZ]

Guptill at 5? Weak cut shot for a 5 or 6, habitually prods forward to balls back of a length as Hendrix says, never going to be a particularly nimble or deft touch player of spin, renowned for scoring bulk of runs by pounding overpitched deliveries to the fence, or driving powerfully on the up in white ball cricket. That doesn't sound like much of a red ball No. 5 for us at all tbh.

Doesn't sound like a player who would succeed at any number in the order at Test level...we're picking him based on having improved most of what you've pointed to there.

 

[hendrix]

I'd argue that the only real difference between good Guptill and bad Guptill is the former's ability to cash in.

You might be able to argue that he's added a cut shot but it's not particularly convincing.

 

[NZTailender]

Not limited to this tour but in general considering the options we have it's either:

Persist with Rutherford and make Guptill and Brownlie bash the door down - Rutherford will almost certainly fail and needs to go back and work on his technique if he ever wants long term success, yet is beneficial to Guptill and Brownlie (assuming they bash the door down).
Give Guptill a chance - we see if his Crowe work has paid off, while Rutherford is made to go back and work on his technique (his advantage) and Brownlie has to wait for Guptill (or Latham) to fail to get a shot (assuming he continues the just finished seasons good run).
Pick Brownlie now when he's not quite there with his numbers and experience - again Rutherford goes back, Guptill continues on his merry First Class run scoring. If Brownlie fails one feels it's the end and it'll be the first out of Guptill and Rutherford to prove they're worth picking again.

The second option seems most attractive, as well as fair, with the least amount of setting someone up to fail. Of course what we really need is a 4th, 5th and 6th option for opener to start making their case known - so pull the finger out Worker et al.

For this series though I think it should be 1. Guptill and 6. Brownlie. I have more faith in Brownlie's ability to switch between opening and middle order than I would Guptill.

 

[Zinzan]

Awesome to see Guppy in the runs at county level !

And strange seeing Jesse continuing to be this very good bowling all-rounder for Essex It's quite incredible what he's achieved with the bowl in the last season and a bit over there. I mean he's always stuck me as a more than handy part-time bowler, but did anyone expect the number of wickets he's been taking?

 

[Zinzan]

Not limited to this tour but in general considering the options we have it's either:

Persist with Rutherford and make Guptill and Brownlie bash the door down - Rutherford will almost certainly fail and needs to go back and work on his technique if he ever wants long term success, yet is beneficial to Guptill and Brownlie (assuming they bash the door down).
Give Guptill a chance - we see if his Crowe work has paid off, while Rutherford is made to go back and work on his technique (his advantage) and Brownlie has to wait for Guptill (or Latham) to fail to get a shot (assuming he continues the just finished seasons good run).
Pick Brownlie now when he's not quite there with his numbers and experience - again Rutherford goes back, Guptill continues on his merry First Class run scoring. If Brownlie fails one feels it's the end and it'll be the first out of Guptill and Rutherford to prove they're worth picking again.

The second option seems most attractive, as well as fair, with the least amount of setting someone up to fail. Of course what we really need is a 4th, 5th and 6th option for opener to start making their case known - so pull the finger out Worker et al.

For this series though I think it should be 1. Guptill and 6. Brownlie. I have more faith in Brownlie's ability to switch between opening and middle order than I would Guptill.

All other things even, surely we'd want the left-right combination at the top.

 

[NZTailender]

All other things even, surely we'd want the left-right combination at the top.

That's another reason for sure.

I had a horrible thought last night. Consider Latham's shuffling in ODIs. Imagine they put him at 6 and open with Guptill-Rutherford

 

[SteveNZ]

Not limited to this tour but in general considering the options we have it's either:

Persist with Rutherford and make Guptill and Brownlie bash the door down - Rutherford will almost certainly fail and needs to go back and work on his technique if he ever wants long term success, yet is beneficial to Guptill and Brownlie (assuming they bash the door down).
Give Guptill a chance - we see if his Crowe work has paid off, while Rutherford is made to go back and work on his technique (his advantage) and Brownlie has to wait for Guptill (or Latham) to fail to get a shot (assuming he continues the just finished seasons good run).
Pick Brownlie now when he's not quite there with his numbers and experience - again Rutherford goes back, Guptill continues on his merry First Class run scoring. If Brownlie fails one feels it's the end and it'll be the first out of Guptill and Rutherford to prove they're worth picking again.

The second option seems most attractive, as well as fair, with the least amount of setting someone up to fail. Of course what we really need is a 4th, 5th and 6th option for opener to start making their case known - so pull the finger out Worker et al.

For this series though I think it should be 1. Guptill and 6. Brownlie. I have more faith in Brownlie's ability to switch between opening and middle order than I would Guptill.

I think we've seen enough of Ruds to know he's not likely to score a weight of runs in early-season UK conditions. His record at Test level since the debut ton has been totally inadequate and his domestic form last season wasn't that flash either.

So I think we need to give Gup a go, given his domestic record continues to roll on as an opener, had a booming World Cup, confidence is high, scored the 200 for Derby etc. And a reasonably extended run as well, not he hasn't scored runs in May with the Duke heading round corners, so let's go to back to the devil(s) we previously knew or someone else not quite ready.

 

[NZTailender]

I think we've seen enough of Ruds to know he's not likely to score a weight of runs in early-season UK conditions. His record at Test level since the debut ton has been totally inadequate and his domestic form last season wasn't that flash either.

So I think we need to give Gup a go, given his domestic record continues to roll on as an opener, had a booming World Cup, confidence is high, scored the 200 for Derby etc. And a reasonably extended run as well, not he hasn't scored runs in May with the Duke heading round corners, so let's go to back to the devil(s) we previously knew or someone else not quite ready.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. But it seems we're not going to see the back of Ruds anytime soon, considering their persistence with him and the fact he's made the squad means he's still part of the McHesson mantra of sticking to an XI especially if it has a lot of mid-20-somethings with potential though glaring technical flaws.

 

[SteveNZ]

You think they'll pick Ruds over Gup for Lord's?

 

[vandem]

No free pass for Martin Guptill into Black Caps test team | Stuff.co.nz

from the Stuff article:

"Allrounder Corey Anderson won't be on the plane on Friday, but Hesson was confident he would make the first test after returning from the IPL with a hairline fracture of his left middle finger.

"I'm sure he'll be fine for the test series. It's normally a three week injury so he's certainly well on track.""​

 

[SteveNZ]

Still gotta think Gup is out in front, save for a couple of massive knocks for Ruds in the warm-up while Gup fails. Gup playing plenty of red-ball cricket + the World Cup no doubt gives him a leg-up too

 

[Athlai]

Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Anderson
Watling (+)
Craig
Southee
Boult
The 3rd seamer who impresses

Ez. Lock it in

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Anderson
Watling (+)
Craig
Southee
Boult
The 3rd seamer who impresses

Ez. Lock it in

I reckon it's Henry's time to replace Wagner. I like Wagner but if we're willing to give Rutherford such a long run based on potential surely the same rationale applies to Henry.

 

[Dan]

Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Santner
Watling +
Bracewell/Henry
Southee
Wagner
Boult


Anderson + Craig in for Santner + Bracewell/Henry if Anderson is fit.