**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[Johnners]

Re: Mitch Johnson, he's actually been Australias leading wicket taker in the past 8 matches, 3 more than Lee, and 11 more than Clark (who has played 2 less matches, but has a higher strike rate)

Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it. If you're going to critisize the bloke, at least wait until he's not doing the job asked of him (taking wickets)

 

[GGG]

I would say they are on par with the gloves, maybe McCullum slightly better. But test match batting Gilchrist blows him away.

 

[Flem274*]

Hmm post match Vettori said "when I look at Taylor, How, Ryder, McCullum and Flynn I se a hugely talented bunch of guys and I think in 20 tests time they'll be really good players (he also expected they would all average 40+)"

Redmond a glaring ommission there, his days are obviously numbered.

 

[morgieb]

That's because Aaron Redmond's ****, obv.

 

[archie mac]

Who chose the Man of the Match?

Not a SK fan

 

[NUFAN]

Hmm post match Vettori said "when I look at Taylor, How, Ryder, McCullum and Flynn I se a hugely talented bunch of guys and I think in 20 tests time they'll be really good players (he also expected they would all average 40+)"

Redmond a glaring ommission there, his days are obviously numbered.

Can't see how all 5 players will average as high as Stephen Fleming did, but obviously I can understand a captain backing his batsmen.

 

[Polo23]

I meant as a package.

And he never will be.

As I said, it remains to be seen either way...McCullum is only 27, at the same time in their careers Gilchrist hadn't even debuted for Australia. To say "he never will be" is pretty biased comment for mine.

 

[NZTailender]

As I said, it remains to be seen either way...McCullum is only 27, at the same time in their careers Gilchrist hadn't even debuted for Australia. To say "he never will be" is pretty biased comment for mine.

McCullum needs to work on his mental game for Tests. In ODI's I'm pretty confident that he'll make a good score and an impact on the match and rate him as one of the best ODI batsman, let alone keeper-batsman, going around.

However in Tests it's anyone guess what he'll end up doing, but more often than not it'll look extremely good for an extremely short period and a pretty low score. He has the talent, he just needs to work on his long game.

And bat at 6/7.

His keeping though is top notch in all forms.

 

[Burgey]

Re: Mitch Johnson, he's actually been Australias leading wicket taker in the past 8 matches, 3 more than Lee, and 11 more than Clark (who has played 2 less matches, but has a higher strike rate)

Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it. If you're going to critisize the bloke, at least wait until he's not doing the job asked of him (taking wickets)

Yep, he's certainly doing the job for us right now (and thank God he is).

 

[howardj]

Re: Mitch Johnson, he's actually been Australias leading wicket taker in the past 8 matches, 3 more than Lee, and 11 more than Clark (who has played 2 less matches, but has a higher strike rate)

Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it. If you're going to critisize the bloke, at least wait until he's not doing the job asked of him (taking wickets)

Yeah, because he took a bundle in India, didn't he - and also knocked over a club side on the weekend. I mean, he's an improving bowler, but hardly above criticism for his so far so-so Test career.

 

[Flem274*]

Can't see how all 5 players will average as high as Stephen Fleming did, but obviously I can understand a captain backing his batsmen.

I dunno really, it depends on what pitches and bowlers they get in their careers and of course how much they make of their ability. Fleming for the first half or so of his career underperformed significantly imo and 2000 onwards averaged something like 45. Also he was always far more suited to facing spinners than pacers, but our top order was always iffy so he had to bat three.

Taylor and Ryder could definitely average more than him, the other three I'm not sure on though Flynn continues to shock us all after his initial test selection so who knows what he might do. How I can't see managing it, Fulton could easily, and McCullum is well...McCullum, and his batting prospects change hourly.

 

[Flem274*]

Mitchell Johnson has shown potential, but the opposition certainly don't mind facing him because he's liable to be a liability to Australia at times. Atm he's at a stage where he's either going to go forward and become a consistently good bowler or he'll regress and go back to getting smashed outside of seamers paradises.

 

[Johnners]

Yeah, because he took a bundle in India, didn't he - and also knocked over a club side on the weekend. I mean, he's an improving bowler, but hardly above criticism for his so far so-so Test career.

Where exactly did I say he was above criticism?

The point is, the has been copping it from all sides despite the fact that over the last 5 matches he's outpointed the 2 senior most seam bowlers in the side. Obviously he's still an improving bowler, but to continue to tear into a guy who's doing what's asked of him, no matter who the opposition, is poor form afaic.

 

[NUFAN]

I dunno really, it depends on what pitches and bowlers they get in their careers and of course how much they make of their ability. Fleming for the first half or so of his career underperformed significantly imo and 2000 onwards averaged something like 45. Also he was always far more suited to facing spinners than pacers, but our top order was always iffy so he had to bat three.

Taylor and Ryder could definitely average more than him, the other three I'm not sure on though Flynn continues to shock us all after his initial test selection so who knows what he might do. How I can't see managing it, Fulton could easily, and McCullum is well...McCullum, and his batting prospects change hourly.

I just think the conditions in NZ make an average of 40, more like a 43 to 45 type average in other countries, due to the nature of the pitches at home, so an average of 40 is actually pretty damn good.

I don't really expect talented players such as Flynn and McCullum to average 3 more than Nathan Astle's 37.02 for instance.

 

[morgieb]

Well there you have it - the secret to Lee's success is he's Asian.

Fixed.

 

[Johnners]

Haha, I'm probably Johnsons biggest fan on these forums, but I had a massive lol at Ben Dorries.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24695897-23212,00.html

Wait until the end of the summer before we talk about a changing of the guard Benny Boy.

Also, ffs if they leave out Clark again!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24695149-23212,00.html

I found this article by Craddock to be an interesting read as well. 11 different teams for the past 11 matches is rather odd for an Australian team.

 

[Top_Cat]

Mitchell Johnson has shown potential, but the opposition certainly don't mind facing him because he's liable to be a liability to Australia at times. Atm he's at a stage where he's either going to go forward and become a consistently good bowler or he'll regress and go back to getting smashed outside of seamers paradises.

He's only had one Test in his career which hasn't been a road, though. And he's out-bowled the more highly-rated members of the pace bowling attack in a few of them. Just one of those bowlers who, no matter what he's sending down, has the happy knack of a picking up a few wickets. When he's not taking wickets he's generally been economical and has picked up 2 or 3 in an innings regularly. Without him, we'd have been in worse shape in India, that's for sure.

 

[Polo23]

I can't say i've been overly impressed by Johnson, and i've seen every test (bar the ones in West Indies) that he has played. He consistently seems to take wickets with bad balls, and I think when people get used to his slingy action and lack of swing he will be far less effective.

 

[Easto241091]

Johnson is a quality bowler. Sure he has some flaws in his game and can improve but what bowler doesn't???. It would be nice to see him swing the ball a bit more but he does have pace on his side.

 

[Top_Cat]

I can't say i've been overly impressed by Johnson, and i've seen every test (bar the ones in West Indies) that he has played. He consistently seems to take wickets with bad balls, and I think when people get used to his slingy action and lack of swing he will be far less effective.

Haha, what's to get used to with lack of something? That's like saying Paul Collingwood will be a less effective wicket-taker when people get used to his lack of pace.

Nah, seriously, I'm not rating him as the best bowler I've ever seen either. He draws poor strokes because I think he surprises a lot of batsmen with his movement away from the bat and his length because let's face it, it's not his superb direction...... Probably explains why he's economical too. No easy flicks off the pads from mis-directed in-swingers here.

His length is the big x-factor for mine. If you're a leftie following the line or moving it away, length is critical because too short, easy cut and too full, drives through cover come into play. That he's generally been just back of a length makes him tough to score from but equally, this Test has been the first he's absolutely dominated too because it takes away a few wicket-taking options. Forget LBW's and bowleds are going to thin on the ground because you're basically relying on catches behind the wicket. On sporting decks, he'll be very tough to play but on flat decks, he won't (and didn't in India) get spanked very often either. That, I think, is why the Aussies are looking at playing a swing bowler instead of another seamer in Adelaide; they'll need someone other than Lee who can move the ball in the air. I disagree with it but can see where they're coming from.