**Official** New Zealand in Australia Thread

[Arjun]

Arjun, the problem in NZ is that 16 & 17 year olds don't get picked for FC sides. Domestic selectors like to keep faith in more experienced players so it's unlikely you'll see a youth player in the set-up until he's around 19 or 20.

NZ is not like India in particular where a youth player is brought in to the national side on the back of just 1 solid FC season. It's very rare in any sport to see a 17 or 18 year old perform consistently at international level straight away. You might get your Wayne Rooney's, Tendulkars etc...but it's rare.

Right now..NZ probably have 4 or 5 youth batsmen who I believe will be on the verge of international selection within a year or two. In terms of talent..they are possibly some of the most talented players we have produced so far, but at the moment they are not ready for the step-up.

Likewise with the bowling. Dayle Hadlee down at the Academy believes NZ will have 4 extremely quick fast bowlers in the next 2 years or so (Richard Sherlock, Te Ahu Davis, Leighton Burtt & William Lonsdale). Whether they can produce results of course...remains to be seen.

Adding to that...look at Michael Clarke. Alot of people think he's only 20, but he's actually 24. He's done a 4 year apprenticeship for NSW and I think you can see the why he's able to achieve results almost immediately.

But we're talking of Kyle Mills here. We need a bowler to perform against the Australian and Indian batting sides, on flat pitches, with or without bounce, or slow turners. Kyle Mills has been a disappointment in all of these conditions. He bowls without any real pace (Ian Butler bowls a few loose ones, but he has pace and can use it to good effect) and doesn't keep it straight either. Not to mention some talk about his action. Are there really no better alternatives?

I couldn't remember those names, except Richard Sherlock, but how have they been performing? With Bond injured for so long, and Butler far from certain to make the team, they too schould be considered, if they are playing a 4-man pace attack.

It's not just a question of youth, even 23-26-year-olds can be chosen, if they are performing well in domestic/A-team events.

 

[Dydl]

Anyone can be chosen if they are in form, unless they are 36 or something. Most players I think start playing internationally when they are about 20-29 or somewhere around that. If you have the talent, why not get picked when there is a space for you in your national team?

 

[Tim]

Sherlock looks the goods but he lost a bit of confidence in South Africa with the NZ 'A' team so he'll need to work on a few things with Canterbury this season.

Dayle Hadlee believed Sherlock was hitting 150 km's + in South Africa & ive also heard he's got the ability to reverse swing, so watch this space.

The other 2, Leighton Burtt & Te Ahu Davis trained at the Chennai Academy recently & there's no question they'll play for Canterbury & Northern Districts respectively at some stage during the season. In terms of national honours, they're a fair way out yet.

The other player is William Lonsdale..he was clocked at 140 km's at the age of 17 outside Jade Stadium in Christchurch, but apparently his accuracy needs attention.

-----
To be honest, we don't have any fast bowling options at the moment..not for another year or two at least. We're just going to have to go through some lean patches particulary in test matches I think.

 

[Elvi]

Sherlock looks the goods but he lost a bit of confidence in South Africa with the NZ 'A' team so he'll need to work on a few things with Canterbury this season.

Dayle Hadlee believed Sherlock was hitting 150 km's + in South Africa & ive also heard he's got the ability to reverse swing, so watch this space.

The other 2, Leighton Burtt & Te Ahu Davis trained at the Chennai Academy recently & there's no question they'll play for Canterbury & Northern Districts respectively at some stage during the season. In terms of national honours, they're a fair way out yet.

The other player is William Lonsdale..he was clocked at 140 km's at the age of 17 outside Jade Stadium in Christchurch, but apparently his accuracy needs attention.

-----
To be honest, we don't have any fast bowling options at the moment..not for another year or two at least. We're just going to have to go through some lean patches particulary in test matches I think.

What about Shane Bond? Do you think he'll ever get over his injury problems?

 

[Mister Wright]

Again, hate to break it to you, but we don't want them anyway. In WA, defectors are not held in especially high regard. Katich and Nicholson in particular.

Linda, can I get an amen? She's got some good stories of traitors getting a lovely reception upon coming back to the WACA.

I could be wrong but isn't Nicholson orignally from N.S.W. anyway?

 

[nibbs]

lemme hear a 'kiiiiwiiiiissss...'

 

[Mister Wright]

Brett Lee got picked again, but it is back to NSW for you (unless injuries strike).

I hate to know what Simon Katich must be feeling when he had a better tour of India then Lehmann.

As far as I'm aware Katich has the flu, a bug he caught in India. Although I think he was left out, but it made it easier on the selectors. Katich is sitting out the N.S.W. v N.Z. game, so whether it is actually the flu or to help make the excuse real I don't know.

 

[Mr Casson]

I could be wrong but isn't Nicholson orignally from N.S.W. anyway?

He could be. I wouldn't care if he is, though.

 

[Loony BoB]

In response to all the talk about up'n'coming bowlers etc...

If anyone is talking about the up'n'coming, they should generally look at the A-team stats, considering it's the next level down from the Black Caps. Looking at the stats from the last tour (Sri Lanka in NZ, Mar/Apri 2004, 2 OD's), it was Martin and Mills that shone out with averages of just over 10 and 12 respectively. In the batting it was Bell (132.5), Sinclair (91.5), Vincent (57.19), JM How (56.14) and, er, Butler (50). I can't find any other A-level tours listed in NZ's "All Tours" section over the last two years. At the U-19 world cup, NZ was basically pretty crap. B Wilson and BJ Watling averaged 53.8 and 44.66 with the bat over their six innings which wasn't too bad, the only bowler with an average of less than 30 was a C Smith with an average of 17.80, BB 4-33, 10 wickets in five matches. So that's the report on our "up'n'coming" players. If anyone has any more NZ-A team stats that would be nice.

 

[marc71178]

I don't know about you, but 81 and 99 with plenty of double figures in between falls into my stellar category.

It's a good series, but it's not great.

 

[anzac]

and robbie peterson, jermaine lawson and paul adams took wickets at a cheaper rate than ntini,mcgrath and gillespie have against b'desh. does that prove anything?
the question is whether vettori has improved significantly since we(or at least i) last saw him?

reportedly there have been improvements in his delivery since the NatWest series - loop & drift & bite off the deck..............

the reality is that we are only questioning his return in BAN because of who the opposition are, and that it has been such a marked improvement from the last few years................at times he has bowled well without any luck - he did well in the 2nd Test in IND without any reward - looked as dangerous as any of the locals........

so maybe he just got a healthy slice of payback in the luck stakes - we wouldn't be raising the question if it was Warne or Murali or Kumble etc..........

 

[anzac]

McMillan has been flown over as cover for Fleming, which seems bizarre to me with Papps being a much more logical fit to replace a top-order batsman. Perhaps they've listened to the South Africans' advice about not taking Papps anywhere near a fast deck.

Who would've thought Sinclair and Marshall might be experimented with as NZ's #2 and #3 in a seriously important test match? I guess it was a short-lived masterstoke with Vincent, but it seems like yet another high-profile tour that could end up just looking for 11 fit men (SA '00, AUS '01, ENG '04...).

The XI for tomorrow (reportedly in batting order):

Richardson
Sinclair
Marshall
Styris
Astle
Oram
Franklin
Hopkins
Wiseman
Butler
Martin

Even tho' I have reservations re Papps on fast decks - it's unproven to date so I'd have brought him over rather than another middle order batsman - let alone Macca...........

with Fleming & McCullum to come into the side it's the Top Order / Openers that are short of cover - not the bloody middle order - especially as I note they are sticking to their 5-5 split.........Christ who'd have thought we'd be ****y enough to go into a series in AUS with only 1 specialist Opener??????

I'm just about ****ed off & frustrated enough to hope that AUS do a 3 day special on NZL in both Tests.................just so the NZL
selectors will have to stop farting around with this assenine(sp) 5-5 split & bodgy player selections etc..............

 

[anzac]

Sherlock looks the goods but he lost a bit of confidence in South Africa with the NZ 'A' team so he'll need to work on a few things with Canterbury this season.

Dayle Hadlee believed Sherlock was hitting 150 km's + in South Africa & ive also heard he's got the ability to reverse swing, so watch this space.
-----
To be honest, we don't have any fast bowling options at the moment..not for another year or two at least. We're just going to have to go through some lean patches particulary in test matches I think.

why did he loose confidence??????? from what I saw his figures were better than anyone else when he played - the only reason I can think of is because he wasn't selected for the 'Tests'...............

didn't someone else say that only Butler & Bond are quicker than Gillespie???? He's only mid 20's & could be a contender?????

 

[anzac]

The other 2, Leighton Burtt & Te Ahu Davis trained at the Chennai Academy recently & there's no question they'll play for Canterbury & Northern Districts respectively at some stage during the season. In terms of national honours, they're a fair way out yet.

Chennai - is that DKL's Academy???? - only reason I can think of to go there to learn the art of Fast seam bowling - otherwise not exactly the continent for it..............

I take it the NZL Academy paid to send these guys overseas - that being the case if I was the NZCC I'd want to make sure I got a return from my investment - particularly if the report card from Chennai was good..........

IMO regardless of State selections, all things being equal these guys should be automatic selections for subsequent 'A' team squads.........if for no other reason than to increase their experience & education at the higher levels.............

no point in letting the State's potentially mothball them for another season or so just to find they're underdone when we need them to step up & be counted - if you know what I mean..........

 

[meatspx]

The most promising aspect of the team selected against NSW is that Mills isn't in it!

Looks like it's between Martin & Butler for the final spot. It would be interesting to see who opens the bowling, Franklin should open as he should be selected for the test, and whoever opens with him must be the odds on favourite in the selectors' minds to play in the 1st test. Of course this will change with the bowling figures of the match though.

The injury with Vettori is worrying - I hope the media has been told the truth about it, ie. bowling alright, but not being able to throw.

Anyway, it's pretty pathetic how there is only 1 warm-up match. This should be a series that we are thoroughly prepared for.

 

[tooextracool]

reportedly there have been improvements in his delivery since the NatWest series - loop & drift & bite off the deck..............

the reality is that we are only questioning his return in BAN because of who the opposition are, and that it has been such a marked improvement from the last few years................at times he has bowled well without any luck - he did well in the 2nd Test in IND without any reward - looked as dangerous as any of the locals........

so maybe he just got a healthy slice of payback in the luck stakes - we wouldn't be raising the question if it was Warne or Murali or Kumble etc..........

i certainly hope so, because vettori was a damn fine bowler in his prime or pre injury or whatever you wanna call it. and i still rate him quite highly because of his performances in australia on the last tour....

 

[Macka]

Any coverage on the web of the NSW vs. NZ game today?

 

[Jnr.]

Any coverage on the web of the NSW vs. NZ game today?

Well it won't be on the baggygreen site, so try this new Cricket Australia site: http://www.cricket.com.au/portal/site
The site's pretty crappy though.

 

[Tim]

Looks similar to the nzcricket.co.nz site. They pulled all their Cricinfo coverage & started using their own live scoring.

Live Scoring has begun so thanks Jnr for sharing that information.

 

[Macka]

Yup thanks, but NZ has been 0/3 after 3.5 overs for the last 30 minutes.