*Official* New Zealand domestic season 2022/23

[Bahnz]

Trevor Goddard was pretty good at this.

I also think it's pretty different bowling 10-15 overs a day of spin than it is bowling 10-15 overs a seam of medium-fast stuff as Watto and Goddard did.

Sanath Jayasuirya bowled 12 overs per Test as well. I know that's not exactly 10-15 overs per day but I'm not sure it would have phased him from a batting front if he had to bowl an extra spell per day, which is basically the difference there. He was used as a proper frontline bowler at times when the conditions suited and I don't think anyone was ever worried he'd bat worse.

Yeah, especially in the later stages of his career, Sanath was almost a genuine allrounder (albeit as the bloke who’s job was to keep things tight while Murali weaved his magic at the other end).

 

[Bahnz]

Ravindra's a net positive IMO if he averages 35 with bat and 45–50 with ball. While it might be a bit much workload on him, filling both the opener and spinner weaknesses is immensely valuable.

I’d still argue that (extremely weirdly for NZ cricket) opening isn’t really a weakness. Not when the blokes up top average 40 and 50 respectively. If Rachin’s to break into the NZ side in the next few years it’ll be in the middle order.

 

[ataraxia]

I’d still argue that (extremely weirdly for NZ cricket) opening isn’t really a weakness. Not when the blokes up top average 40 and 50 respectively. If Rachin’s to break into the NZ side in the next few years it’ll be in the middle order.

I'd still rather have Latham at 4 tbh

 

[Nintendo]

Didn't rachin make a 100 and take 5fer in the same game batting 5 for NZ A a while back?

 

[nzfan]

Another interesting stat.. these were the stats of each player in first-class just before they made their test debuts. Of the lot, Rachin had the most appearances for NZ A followed by Phillips.

I do feel Will Young could have been played way earlier. Not sure why that didn't happen but we missed the boat. He was out of the world cup squad in 2019 due to shoulder injury and was laid low for like a year nearly but still could have played him much earlier.

 

[NZTailender]

Maybe I'm too underrating of his skills but his bowling should be treated at the Williamson-Root level, rather than a potential 5th bowler or genuine all rounder.

Since we lost Kane's handy throw downs we've really lacked that super part time golden arm that we use to have when Astle and McMillan were knocking about. I think if we rely on his bowling rather than treat it as a bonus it'd be a detriment to his main skill (Batting) and also cause us to go into a test with a weaker bowling attack when we should otherwise choose a specialist.

 

[nzfan]

Maybe I'm too underrating of his skills but his bowling should be treated at the Williamson-Root level, rather than a potential 5th bowler or genuine all rounder.

Since we lost Kane's handy throw downs we've really lacked that super part time golden arm that we use to have when Astle and McMillan were knocking about. I think if we rely on his bowling rather than treat it as a bonus it'd be a detriment to his main skill (Batting) and also cause us to go into a test with a weaker bowling attack when we should otherwise choose a specialist.

I think it could be because he is a left armer. Usually left arm bowlers do get looked at seriously as compared to right hand spinners.

 

[Bahnz]

Another interesting stat.. these were the stats of each player in first-class just before they made their test debuts. Of the lot, Rachin had the most appearances for NZ A followed by Phillips.

I do feel Will Young could have been played way earlier. Not sure why that didn't happen but we missed the boat. He was out of the world cup squad in 2019 due to shoulder injury and was laid low for like a year nearly but still could have played him much earlier.

View attachment 34885

I’m slightly surprised by this as I remember Latham getting a huge unbeaten double ton in his debut season that I remember bumping his FC average up to 40ish, but thinking about it I suspect that was probably made after his test debut in the last round of the Plunket Shield.

Edit: this game, which came the week after his debut:

CD vs CANT Cricket Scorecard at Napier, February 23 - 26, 2014

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Central Districts vs Canterbury cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2013/14 dated February 23 - 26, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

I guess one difference between Latham and Ravindra was the former really piled up mountains of runs that season. Scored nearly a thousand at 79, making it pretty clear he was ready for the step up. Rachin’s never managed to have a bumper season like that, he’s just been quietly oscillating between very good and ok.

 

[nzfan]

I’m slightly surprised by this as I remember Latham getting a huge unbeaten double ton in his debut season that I remember bumping his FC average up to 40ish, but thinking about it I suspect that was probably made after his test debut in the last round of the Plunket Shield.

Edit: this game, which came the week after his debut:

CD vs CANT Cricket Scorecard at Napier, February 23 - 26, 2014

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Central Districts vs Canterbury cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2013/14 dated February 23 - 26, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

I guess one difference between Latham and Ravindra was the former really piled up mountains of runs that season. Scored nearly a thousand at 79, making it pretty clear he was ready for the step up. Rachin’s never managed to have a bumper season like that, he’s just been quietly oscillating between very good and ok.

14 wickets for Todd Astle and 7 for Ajaz. Where are those decks gone?

 

[Bahnz]

Didn't rachin make a 100 and take 5fer in the same game batting 5 for NZ A a while back?

Yeah, though it was against a pretty feeble WI side staffed with t20 players iirc.

 

[Bahnz]

14 wickets for Todd Astle and 7 for Ajaz. Where are those decks gone?

El Niño being in full effect for the past few summers certainly hasn’t helped.

 

[Prince EWS]

Maybe I'm too underrating of his skills but his bowling should be treated at the Williamson-Root level, rather than a potential 5th bowler or genuine all rounder.

I think he should be seen as a batting allrounder. Having a batting allrounder is your fifth bowler is fine IMO. See CdG.

 

[Bahnz]

Statistically his bowling has really gone to another level this season. 17 wickets in 4 and a half games at 28 apiece is no joke in the PS. Chuck in a batting average of 35 at the top of the order and it’s genuine pick me stuff. If Bracewell’s bowling hadn’t surprised on the upside I’d say he’d be in the squad even for this group of conservative selectors.

 

[Flem274*]

We should shoot for the stars with Ravindra and revise if it doesn't work. A 40+ test opener (if Latham can somewhat fraud it, Ravindra can) and Joe Root level bowling would be a huge win, especially in this era. If he was able to be a 40+ opener and be a proper test spinner then well awesome obv.

If he struggles then sure just let him bat for a while but I think we should give players who are young and the spine of their domestic sides faith and room to work. We showed faith in what we all called domestic journeymen who were spine players in their sides (Blundell, CdG, Watling, Mitchell) and we were rewarded. Ravindra averages 38 as an opener on the bullshit decks of the past few seasons and he is 23 - signals say he's going to be just fine long term.

Though with our openers being relatively settled I wouldn't mind him batting wherever to start with. It's nice to have him as an option if we want to slide Latham, Conway or KW though.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

. Have their ever been any successful opening allrounders in test cricket?

Vinoo Mankad (very good at runouts I hear)
Eddie Barlow
Trevor Goddard
Mudassar Nazar
Ravi Shastri
Manoj Prabhakar
Sanath Jayasuriya
Shane Watson

 

[SteveNZ]

It's such a quandary, the spinning all-rounder thing. Bracewell is a busted arse in terms of batting, averaging 23 and racking up an incredible list of poor dismissals at bad times. But he's actually bowled some genuinely very good spells, has pretty good control most of the time and I guess it should be noted is also an outstanding fielder. Ravindra is clearly the much better bat, and will get much better you'd hope....but his bowling has never looked threatening. Maybe he's improved it.

Honestly, I think this management group is so far away from even considering dropping Bracewell. He's going to get Crawley-level backing in the side, I reckon. And maybe, given he has shown ability to score international runs, that will pay off one day.

 

[straw man]

Good from Rachin, now triple it.

And no I don't know how he should fit into this NZ side now we have two openers.

 

[Prince EWS]

Good from Rachin, now triple it.

And no I don't know how he should fit into this NZ side now we have two openers.

I'm not sure either of the two openers are actually best served opening, tbf.

 

[straw man]

I'm not sure either of the two openers are actually best served opening, tbf.

While there is that argument if you were starting from a blank slate, there's a cost to changing players' roles too.
Latham - spent his whole NZ test career opening.
Conway - has already moved from opener to 4 to opener, so gotta stop jerking him around and let him settle.

Unlike others I don't think moving Williamson from 3 to 4 has a whole lot of benefit, though I would still be a liiiiiittle tempted to go for Rachin/Conway as 'third opener' at 3.

Latham
Conway/Rachin
Conway/Rachin
Williamson

This is all with the caveat that Rachin needs a dominant domestic season to demand NZ selection.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Good from Rachin, now triple it.

And no I don't know how he should fit into this NZ side now we have two openers.

Harsh on Sodhi, but in NZ conditions I wouldn't mind:

Ravindra, Latham, Conway, Williamson, Phillips, Mitchell, Blundell, Smith, Henry, Southee, Tickner

or just bat Rachin at 3