***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[superkingdave]

yeah all three Aussies were within 1mph average. Flintoff had the highest average IIRC around 86, Harmison's average was around 85.5 but he had teh fastest ball, Gough was barely faster than the Aussie trio

 

[aussie]

I'd say even 81mph is giving him a bit too much credit. Admittedly I missed about 25 of the middle overs of our innings (prob the best ones to miss as an Englishman!) but I'd say as many if not more of Dizzy's balls were below 80mph than were above.

I'd say he's the biggest concern for the Aussies. Looks a shadow of his former self just now.

yeah i think its just a phase their is a lot more cricket to be played this season and Dizzy is a WC operator so i'm pretty positive that he will improve

 

[superkingdave]

Also, Flintoff and Harmison definately mixed in a lot of slower balls in the final spells, there was a 25mph difference between their fastest and slowest balls

 

[aussie]

Since KP's innings yesterday the talk especially in my school today was that he has to play in the ashes. I for one dont think so just yet, but if he continues to play like this throughout the ODI certainly he will develop some sort of psychological hold over Australia and i would agrue for him to play.

But for now i'm still sticking for Bell & Thorpe in the middle order. What do you blokes think??

 

[tooextracool]

Going by the speed gun I actually thought Watson was the fastest Aussie bowler, but he doesn't seem to get a lot of carry on his balls. He was consistently around 83-85 in the earlier spell I saw & Gilly was still standing up without too much bother.

im pretty sure watson was recorded as the quickest, around 83-84 mph.

 

[aussie]

im pretty sure watson was recorded as the quickest, around 83-84 mph.

one of the balls he bowled at Flintoof was clocked at 86.1

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm a massive, massive KP fan & Thorpey is exactly the sort of fella you need in the middle order so, as harsh & criminally unfair as it is, I'd omit the lad with the 297 average. His time will come, but KP just has an aura about him. He was fired by his adrenaline yesterday &, more impressively, he controlled it.

His form for Hants hasn't be wonderful, but cricket is littered with players who perform better on the big stage. I'd sooner have someone who has the ability to smack Jason Gillespie for 17 in one over with the game literally riding on it than someone who can score 100 after 100 against county attacks with pedantic text-book correctness.

 

[Demolition Man]

I'm a massive, massive KP fan & Thorpey is exactly the sort of fella you need in the middle order so, as harsh & criminally unfair as it is, I'd omit the lad with the 297 average. His time will come, but KP just has an aura about him. He was fired by his adrenaline yesterday &, more impressively, he controlled it.

His form for Hants hasn't be wonderful, but cricket is littered with players who perform better on the big stage. I'd sooner have someone who has the ability to smack Jason Gillespie for 17 in one over with the game literally riding on it than someone who can score 100 after 100 against county attacks with pedantic text-book correctness.

Then you have players like robin smith..........

 

[age_master]

Also, Flintoff and Harmison definately mixed in a lot of slower balls in the final spells, there was a 25mph difference between their fastest and slowest balls

both of them were bowling slower balls around the 70mph mark

 

[superkingdave]

both of them were bowling slower balls around the 70mph mark

exactly, there slowest balls were about 68/69 and fastest were 92//93

 

[Mister Wright]

Hayden has looked in pretty good touch to me. Not only has he hit a century, an 80 odd retired and a 70 odd in a 20 over game in the tour matches, but in the ODI against England he was just getting going when he got out to what was, in all fairness, pretty much a freak dismissal. He hit it in the air and everything, but he struck what was a pretty poor delivery very nicely, and Collingwood took a blinder. I don't think his form is a concern right now, I'm more worried about Ponting and Gilchrist really. Martyn, Symonds, Clarke and Hussey have all looked fine.

The concerns right now are the batting form of Ponting and Gilchrist, the bowling form of Gillespie and Kasprowicz, and definately the fielding. I think though that a decent score is around the corner, hopefully on Thursday.

I wouldn't be too worried about Gilchrist, like most 'pinch hitters' in ODI you can go through patches where you are a bit hit & miss, then have freak bursts of brutality. Ponting is a different matter, maybe bowlers have finally realised if you pitch it up to him early you are a chance of LBW, finding an edge or bowling him.

 

[marc71178]

strange then that lewis was 12th man in the last test, and would have played if simon jones wasnt fit.

Yes, but I can't see him doing anything in the ODIs to make him called up if we have an injury.

 

[Top_Cat]

I wouldn't be too worried about Gilchrist, like most 'pinch hitters' in ODI you can go through patches where you are a bit hit & miss, then have freak bursts of brutality.

Well that's right. Gilly has plenty of technical flaws in his batting in terms of orthodoxy but when he's also got the eye of a MoFo so when he's going for it, those flaws don't matter. When he's struggling or tentative, they come into play a bit more.

Ponting is a different matter, maybe bowlers have finally realised if you pitch it up to him early you are a chance of LBW, finding an edge or bowling him.

This is hardly new! It's just that when he's in form, again, it doesn't matter.

 

[Mister Wright]

This is hardly new! It's just that when he's in form, again, it doesn't matter.

I don't think its a thing where he's only out of form. He is one of the worst starters in the world at the moment. It is just a case that bowlers don't bowl in the right place often enuogh early in his innings. I think in or out of form that is the spot to bowl to him early. Give him 1/2 an hour at the crease, and you pretty much cannot bowl anywhere to him.

 

[social]

I don't think its a thing where he's only out of form. He is one of the worst starters in the world at the moment. It is just a case that bowlers don't bowl in the right place often enuogh early in his innings. I think in or out of form that is the spot to bowl to him early. Give him 1/2 an hour at the crease, and you pretty much cannot bowl anywhere to him.[/QUOTE

I've read somewhere that Ponting's average once he reaches 15 or 20 is over 80.

Like many players that technically arent perfect, he can be susceptible before he gets his eye in. But given that he received a 92 mph yorker first ball and he has consistently been one of the world's best players for a few years, its not that much cause for concern.

Gilchrist's form is irrelevant.

 

[twctopcat]

Against the english bowlers now ponting will have it in the back of the mind that they will throw the full straight ball now. This may well prompt him to play shots he wouldn't usually do. If it happens again soon then big doubts will enter his mind no doubt. Up to him if he thinks he needs to do something about his falling over technique early on.

 

[social]

Against the english bowlers now ponting will have it in the back of the mind that they will throw the full straight ball now. This may well prompt him to play shots he wouldn't usually do. If it happens again soon then big doubts will enter his mind no doubt. Up to him if he thinks he needs to do something about his falling over technique early on.

It will make him concentrate on playing straight.

 

[aussie]

I don't think its a thing where he's only out of form. He is one of the worst starters in the world at the moment. It is just a case that bowlers don't bowl in the right place often enuogh early in his innings. I think in or out of form that is the spot to bowl to him early. Give him 1/2 an hour at the crease, and you pretty much cannot bowl anywhere to him.

You have got it spot on again Mr.Wright . Once more you have lived up to your user name.

 

[BARMY_LAD]

(In regards to my comment "Your only as good as your last game")

Err, no you aren't. Class is permanant, and it's no accident that Australia have dominated international cricket to a greater extent than anyone else ever has in the last 5 or 6 years. Remember Australia have had down times in the past - they lost a one day series to Pakistan out of nowhere in the winter of 2002 straight off thrashing the second best team in the world, and a few months later absolutely mauled them in an away series 3-0. In 1997, England swept the ODIs and won the first test, but lost the series. In 2001, Australia lost to two county sides in warmups. In 2003 the West Indies beat Australia three times in a row in ODIs. The list goes on - that doesn't alter the fact that Australia have been the best team in the world by a massive margin and losing a couple of games when a few players are down on form and the team in general is a bit rusty isn't going to change that. If Australia are in decline, why were they are their usual best just a few weeks ago? Did they suddenly hit the "has-beens wall" in the intervening period or something? England (and Bangladesh, in fact) have played very well, and Australia have been rusty in several areas of their game and played quite badly. That's all it is, and unless Australia fail to turn it around before the end of the tour and get beaten in the Ashes, I don't think it's any sort of evidence that Australia is in decline as a side.



I doubt it, somehow. Regarding Pietersen, I think it would be a bad idea right now to bring him in for Bell, who looks an exceptional talent, but perhaps if he continues to perform through the NWS it might be a wise move, particularly if he manages to get on top of McGrath and Gillespie and stays there.

The one thing England really should do, is stop picking Solanki at 8 in ODIs, it's just ridiculous. He should be dropped for Tremlett to take advantage of the fact that one of England's front-line bowlers is also a front-line batsman. That means 5 bowlers and 7 batsmen can be picked in the same team - an ideal situation. I also don't think Lewis is international standard, but with Giles and Jones injured it might be hard to replace him for now. With Gough, Harmison, Tremlett/Jones, Flintoff and Giles though, that's 50 quality overs, something every team in ODIs should be striving for. Picking a mediocre specialist batsman like Solanki as a number 8 makes no sense at all.

Class may stay, form can come and go -take Matthew Hayden's recent slump in Test Cricket (averageing 34.25 in his last 12 Test Matches!!).
There is quite simply no excuse for the fact that you lost to Bangladesh and you have lost your recent 4 matches... its proof in black and white! Your results in previous months don't count for anything in my book, only this series.
Yes, I do believe that Australia have hit the wall... take South Africa for example, they have been long regarded as the number two side in the World and now look at them (ranked 4th in ODI's and 6th in Test Cricket) and although it is true in saying that Australia could lose all of their ODI's this series and still maintain their number one position it doesnt convince me that their CURRENT side is a great one.

In regards to Solanki... I agree with you... I am not his biggest fan either, Tremlett may be the way to go, but I suppose its like the old saying "If it aint broken, don't fix it!"

 

[aussie]

(In regards to my comment "Your only as good as your last game")



Class may stay, form can come and go -take Matthew Hayden's recent slump in Test Cricket (averageing 34.25 in his last 12 Test Matches!!).
There is quite simply no excuse for the fact that you lost to Bangladesh and you have lost your recent 4 matches... its proof in black and white! Your results in previous months don't count for anything in my book, only this series.
Yes, I do believe that Australia have hit the wall... take South Africa for example, they have been long regarded as the number two side in the World and now look at them (ranked 4th in ODI's and 6th in Test Cricket) and although it is true in saying that Australia could lose all of their ODI's this series and still maintain their number one position it doesnt convince me that their CURRENT side is a great one.

In regards to Solanki... I agree with you... I am not his biggest fan either, Tremlett may be the way to go, but I suppose its like the old saying "If it aint broken, don't fix it!"

What????? how can you just count out Australia's perfomance in recent months, they have just been rusty in some area's and have played badly thats all. You are overexaggerating mate, the only way we can concievable say that Australia are decling is if they lose everything this summer.

With regards to the Solanki issue has you may know Giles is back in the squad