***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[marc71178]

Aussie is a big Lancashire fan...

 

[tooextracool]

I happen to think Jones is a better batsman than Hogg; you don't: so be it. I don't see what alcohol has to do with it.

and what is the reasoning behind it?
jones averages 16.5 in ODI cricket, hogg averages 25.
jones has 2 50s, both against zimbabwe, hogg has 2, one against england and the other against WI.
jones' list A average is 22, hogg's average is 29.
if you seriously think the word 'batsman' goes with someone whos never scored a 50, then you are obviously out of your mind.

 

[tooextracool]

Lewis are very unlikely to get near the Test side.

strange then that lewis was 12th man in the last test, and would have played if simon jones wasnt fit.

 

[tooextracool]

Well the situation looks similar to Katich, he did nothing wrong when in the Test side, but the selectors went for Symonds on the back of his ODI form. But the England selectors have a different mindset to the Australia, their loyal to their players.

not sure if dropping someone who scored 125 and 77* to save the test and embarassment in a series against india at home is comparable to bell scoring heaps against bangladesh.

 

[tooextracool]

So...breaking up the Tresco & Strauss opening partnership yet to fail in Test cricket? No thanks.

given what we saw against mcgrath yesterday, it looks extremely likely that both of them will fail. that is not to suggest of course that either of them should be dropped but if trescothick gets out to the same ball that hes been getting out on past ashes tours in the first test(and in the only ball that gillespie bowled with any sort of pace yesterday and got to go away he edged it to first slip), then just dispose of him.

 

[tooextracool]

They should. What do they want to do? Give an old stager a finale against Australia or win the Ashes? Pietersen adds an enthusiasm and arrogance that is needed against Australia. He doesn't have any mental scars and has the form to back it up.

and theres so much evidence that thorpe will fail isnt it?
especially given how hes torn australia apart in the past.

 

[tooextracool]

Ricky Ponting? Brian Lara?

lara maybe, but ponting, definetly not.

 

[tooextracool]

Same way you played him so well in the Champions Trophy?

In all seriousness, I see the return of Ashley (which crucially gives us balance in the number 8 slot and gives us 50 overs from genuine bowlers - still not convinced about Lewis on decks where there's no movement and he can be hit through the line) as equal to the return of Lee (extra dimension to the bowling attack) or Symonds (talisman etc)

i think he would have been particularly useful in the game yesterday, which was on a slowish wicket.

 

[tooextracool]

Two genuine wicket-taking deliveries, a slightly unlucky play-on, a daft play-on, two caught in the deep, a stupid run-out.

i think the 'slight unlucky play-on' was more to do with good tight bowling, and not very good batting.

 

[tooextracool]

As for the bizarre suggestions about Trescothick being dropped - well, bizarre is an understatement.

i dont think its bizarre at all. its a perfectly valuable argument, given how mediocre tresco has been in the past(assuming of course gillespie does actually bowl to his best in the tests). until the SA tour i would have advocated dropping him myself, but his performance against ntini there suggested that he might just have worked things out.

 

[aussie]

He's a tendency to deliver a 15-20 run over - I'd rather go with the better fielder and batsman in that case.

well Giles is back so this problem is resolved

 

[tooextracool]

What was the highest speed that Gillespie got to in the game against England?

i'd think it was 84.6, and it was the ball that tresco edged for 4.
nonetheless his average speed was around 81 mph, and he was generally bowling slower than mcgrath.

 

[aussie]

Hopefully, England will drop Thorpe.

why??

 

[badgerhair]

and theres so much evidence that thorpe will fail isnt it?
especially given how hes torn australia apart in the past.

Yes, his centuries in the 1998-99, 2001 and 2002-3 Ashes were indeed memorable, weren't they?

I'm still in favour of retaining Thorpe ahead of Pietersen in the Tests, and will remain so until I'm convinced that the top four can regularly get us to 200-3. Thorpe represents a far better insurance policy for instances of 31-3 than Pietersen does, and I have yet to be convinced that the Australia bowling has deteriorated so badly that this is not to be expected, at least to start with. But Thorpe's previous record against Australia is so ancient as to be of interest only to palaeontologists.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[tooextracool]

I'd say the consistency is what he is getting.

and other than the series in SA, hes by and large ended up with very poor averages at the end of every series.one series does not make you consistent, especially when you consider that some of his knocks were hampering the england side.

- and yes, he may strike at 65-70, but he anchors the innings, and when there's hitters like Flintoff and Pietersen as well as Trescothick, an anchor is useful.

i dont see how scoring 42 off 82 helps anyside, especially when you're batting first. nor is scoring 70 off 94 when you are chasing 311. he definetly needs to score runs a lot quicker, because pietersen and flintoff arent always going to come around and hammer the bowling like they did on those occasions.

 

[aussie]

Aussie is a big Lancashire fan...

spot on Marc

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, his centuries in the 1998-99, 2001 and 2002-3 Ashes were indeed memorable, weren't they?

no but the time that he averaged 50.33 against the exact same attack was. and despite his mental state he still managed to score 77 in 98-99 in the only test that he did play at brisbane.
maybe hes not the player he was, but at least everyone know that he has succeeded against mcgrath and warne in the past, and bar vaughan, who else can we say that about in the current english side?

 

[BoyBrumby]

i'd think it was 84.6, and it was the ball that tresco edged for 4.
nonetheless his average speed was around 81 mph, and he was generally bowling slower than mcgrath.

I'd say even 81mph is giving him a bit too much credit. Admittedly I missed about 25 of the middle overs of our innings (prob the best ones to miss as an Englishman!) but I'd say as many if not more of Dizzy's balls were below 80mph than were above.

I'd say he's the biggest concern for the Aussies. Looks a shadow of his former self just now.

 

[tooextracool]

I'd say even 81mph is giving him a bit too much credit. Admittedly I missed about 25 of the middle overs of our innings (prob the best ones to miss as an Englishman!) but I'd say as many if not more of Dizzy's balls were below 80mph than were above.

admittedly they were, but they did bring up a stat that showed the average speed for all the bowlers in the game. gillespie was around 81 if i remember correctly(im pretty sure that it was above 80), and mcgrath and kaspa were around 82. and strangely enough, flintoff and harmison were only about 2-3 mph faster.

 

[BoyBrumby]

admittedly they were, but they did bring up a stat that showed the average speed for all the bowlers in the game. gillespie was around 81 if i remember correctly(im pretty sure that it was above 80), and mcgrath and kaspa were around 82. and strangely enough, flintoff and harmison were only about 2-3 mph faster.

That is a bit surprising, especially McGrath. In his opening spell he operated almost exclusively around 77-79mph, apart from one short one where he bent his back & it clocked about 83mph.

Going by the speed gun I actually thought Watson was the fastest Aussie bowler, but he doesn't seem to get a lot of carry on his balls. He was consistently around 83-85 in the earlier spell I saw & Gilly was still standing up without too much bother.