***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[luckyeddie]

Totally, absolutely unfair. Katich is a class batsman with an excellent technique and consistent performance who has never done a thing wrong, and has been totally mistreated by the selectors. If anything, he's the furthest thing from "flavour of the month" around, given that he's the one who gets dropped every time the selectors want to try someone. Symonds hit a few 50s in Sri Lanka in the ODIs, so they dropped Katich who had scored a match-saving hundred in his last test to bring him in. Clarke came in for Ponting in India and was Australia's second best batsman while Lehmann struggled, and when Ponting came back they dropped Katich, the third best batsman of the tour, to let Lehmann back in and retain Clarke.

Having said that, I don't think it's fair to say Katich is a better batsman than Langer yet (obviously), but to deride him as someone who gets favour they don't deserve is ridiculous.

Whereas you have an argument as far as one-day internationals (someone to say 'but of course that's what we are talking about, you fat git), as far as class is concerned, I stand by my statement that there is no comparison.

Langer is always 2 poor innings away from losing his place in the test side for ever - now THAT's pressure.

I haven't derided Katich - the 'flavour of the month' bit relates to silly people on this site (you can be one if you continue this ridiculous line of argument, key to the staff toilet or not) who keep throwing people up as world-beaters - Love, Clarke, Haddin, MacGill, GLA, Shane (giggle) Watson etc etc etc. Tomorrow, no doubt, it'll be someone else. Sooner or later, one will prove to be better than someone in the test team. Not for a while yet, but soon.

Edit, because I'm not really getting my point across, am I?

There is a very good reason why test and one-day international boards and committees make the selections they do, and that is, by and large, they know an awful lot more about the game than you, me, idiots like Richard and TEC, Marc, one-eyed one-player members like Scallywag, clever ginger students like Pickup and any other member of Cricketweb living or dead can even hope to achieve. Even the duck. Maybe. Sometimes, they make mistakes, but they are generally errors of judgement which get rectified quickly, or they think they 'see something' in a player.

This faith is sometimes repaid (witness Shane Warne, who looked to be a journeyman plodder in the test arena at first, a bouffant poser who just tried to rip the cover off the ball - but he wasn't, was he? It was only later he 'lost his way'), sometimes not (Mark Ramprakash who reached 29 more times than I've had hot dinners, then self-destructed because he thought that he had 'arrived this time' instead of pretending that he was back on 0 again) but it's generally a case of temperament or the ability of a player to raise his game which makes the difference.

Katich looks to me to be a fine prospect, but Justin Langer has one of the best temperaments I have seen since Geoff Boycott. If Katich turns out to have half the ability but the same level of application and grit, he will be a fixture in the side for a decade. If, however, he turns out to be twice the player but thinks that he is three times as good, he will disappear without trace.

I'll give him a 1 in 3 chance (I usually say 1 in 5)

God, this Mexican beer is strong.

 

[luckyeddie]

well these days JL wont play those kind of strokes but he used to. I know thier not much to compare the two by but all i'm saying is that Katich looks like he could become and even better player than JL.

If he does, then he will become a truly great player - and I use that word very sparingly indeed.

 

[SJS]

Langer is a genuine high class test batsman and that is a complement that needs to be earned over a period of time.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Also shows that limited over cricket is much more unpredictable.

It might not be for long if the substitute rule gives the match to the team winning the toss, as some think it will. We shall see.

 

[aussie]

If he does, then he will become a truly great player - and I use that word very sparingly indeed.

well Simon is in the initial stages

 

[PY]

You reckon Dazza did that on purpose?

 

[SJS]

It might not be for long if the substitute rule gives the match to the team winning the toss, as some think it will. We shall see.

I think they must allow the substitutew to be named after the toss is decided OR allow two substitutes to be named one of whom may be used for that game.

This will reduce the ridiculous situation that comes up at present.

 

[King_Ponting]

Mate my predictions

1. Vaughan lowest scorer in match (correct)
2. Ponting highest scorer in match with a 80+ score (Correct)
3. whoever wins the toss will win the game (Correct)

I think i just might go buy a lotto ticket today. Seems luck is with me

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Well, three very good signs for Australia today. Kasprowicz' apparent return to some sort of form with the ball bodes well for Australia's third seamer problem in the tests, Ponting's magnificent effort with the bat is very significant indeed for such an important player, and also general sharpness in the field, where Australia looked a class above what they have for a while now. Perhaps the thrashing at Headingley finally sparked them to life?

England's top order woes continue, and really four of the five of England players who might appear in the tests look to be in real trouble. Trescothick outside off-stump, Strauss with the one that comes back into him, Pietersen trying to score when the ball is put outside off (a-la Martyn in 2001/02), and Vaughan just generally seems out of touch. Flintoff finally made the big score today that he's been threatening all series though, which is a good sign for England.

The real difference between this game and the rest of the series for England was how unpenetrative their bowling looked. This is easily the flattest pitch of the lot that England and Australia have played on so far, and Harmison and Flintoff who have both had the Australian top order in knots looked fairly tame today, particularly Harmy. At least at Leeds two of Australia's bowlers still troubled England a bit.

The Oval is usually pretty flat I think, and conditions are forecast as quite pleasant. It will be interesting to see if England can match it with Australia when there's no help in the wicket.

 

[luckyeddie]

well Simon is in the initial stages

I've gone back and edited my post because really I didn't do it justice. Just clearing up a few misunderstandings (actually plugging away with the match report which is taking 90% of the next hour or so, I'm just coming up for breath).

<quack> He's stopped for another Mexican lager

 

[aussie]

pretty much agree with ur assesment on today's game faaip but dont know if we can say Vaughan is out of touch because after his 59 at headingley ppl were saying he was in good touch. His batting these days is just weird....

 

[aussie]

I've gone back and edited my post because really I didn't do it justice. Just clearing up a few misunderstandings (actually plugging away with the match report which is taking 90% of the next hour or so, I'm just coming up for breath).

<quack> He's stopped for another Mexican lager

well i read it and ur point has been understood, though i would give Katich a 1 in 5 chance.

 

[King_Ponting]

Ponting was god like in that match. He could do no wrong.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I haven't derided Katich - the 'flavour of the month' bit relates to silly people on this site (you can be one if you continue this ridiculous line of argument, key to the staff toilet or not) who keep throwing people up as world-beaters - Love, Clarke, Haddin, MacGill, GLA, Shane (giggle) Watson etc etc etc. Tomorrow, no doubt, it'll be someone else. Sooner or later, one will prove to be better than someone in the test team. Not for a while yet, but soon.

I'm not throwing up Katich as a world beater. I'm saying he's a very good player and hasn't done anything wrong, and far from being the flavour of the month he's actually extremely underrated in my opinion.

I agree with the rest of your post, both on the selectors (funny how according to people on internet forums, every country in the world has awful selectors isn't it? Amazing they keep their jobs), and on Langer's class and excellent temprament. I'm a huge fan of his, and I think his success despite some things which would have held back other players (technical flaws he has never overcome etc) speaks very highly of him. He stands alongside Mark Taylor and Glenn McGrath as my favourite Australian player of recent times.

I was not disagreeing with you about Langer, but about Katich, because calling someone who is so massively ignored and underrated the flavour of the month struck me as incredibly unfair.

 

[tooextracool]

The way Kasper has bowled to Tresco and made him look VERY uncomfortable is exactly why Kasper should play in the Tests. He makes the English lefties look very vulnerable.

indeed, kaspas off cutters provide the extra dimension to this australian attack.
it would take a bunch of dumba**es to pick gillespie over kaspa and lee for the first ashes test......
so i guess we'll see gillespie at Lords then.

 

[sledger]

gillespie will be persisted with, that seems rather obvious to me, bar a really awful showing in the next ODI ( and i mean really really awful ), mind you if he is dropped then we may well see the introduction of tait..

 

[tooextracool]

KP undone by his huge favouring of the leg side, think that's his Ashes chances gone for a burton too.

problem for him is that he plays with hard hands. hard hands + poor footwork is always going to be a problem. it was a poor ball by brett lee and he somehow managed to drag it back onto his stumps.

Solanki for Giles, anyone?

solanki for gough for me, not because i could have predicted that giles would have bowled as well as he did but because hes quite a capable batsman too(would have been quite useful had we lost a couple more wickets then) and hes our only spin option.

 

[tooextracool]

yep the legendary Thorpe position should be safe now.

its absolute injustice that someone whos performed as well as he has over the last 12 years and as well as he has over the last year could have his place in jeopardy ITFP.

 

[tooextracool]

Let's look at the CW match report, shall we? Let your uncle LE be the judge...

Wonderful work behind the stumps by Gilchrist had Collingwood struggling to regain his ground, the margin between success and failure measured in a single frame of film and a shadow. If it could ever be possible to get away with saying 'It is clear there was doubt', that was that moment, and the television umpire correctly ruled in favour of the batsman

i cant believe that so many people couldnt see how clear it was that he was out. the side on view showed that maybe while getting his toe back his heel may have been planted, the view from behind showed that his foot was always in the air until he got his toe back to the crease, which from the side on view happened about half an hour after gilchrist had taken off the bails.

 

[tooextracool]

3. The over of Symonds to Collingwood and Flintoff should've resulted in a minimum of 1 wicket which would've meant "game over."

a) how in the hell do you know that the game would have been over? you'd think the previous game at lords would have told you something. not to mention the fact that we could have still used our super sub.
b) if symonds got a poor decision then so did vaughan, it all evens out.