***Official*** India in South Africa

[silentstriker]

Guys, don't discount the brilliant pace bowling performance by the South African attack. We Indian fans have a habit of getting too caught up in the crapness of our own players every time we get owned instead of realizing that we were owned by quality opposition.

Very good, hardly 'brilliant'.

 

[Goughy]

Right now, I want to puke. Just curl up, and die. Forget the players, I'm embarrassed to be a fan of such a spineless side.

I guess this is the wrong time to tell you that its only a game?

Do you also believe in santa claus, tooth fairy and yorkshire literacy?

Tongue in cheek or not I must stand-up for my fellow county-folk.

Alan Bennett, Anne Brontë, Branwell Brontë, Charlotte Brontë, Emily Brontë, Sir William Empson, Fred Hoyle, Andrew Marvell, J. B. Priestley, and so and and so forth.

Yorkshires literary heritage and the words it has inspired is deep, varied and acclaimed. Keep your criticism for the Indian pace attack

 

[Salamuddin]

Not many positives for India apart from Tendulkar who looked quite good and Munaf Patel who continues to bowl excellently.
I can't help but feel that man VVS should be in the team ahead of Wasim Jaffer.


Great stuff from the South African bolwers though !! Very pleased to see Nel firing on all cylinders......

 

[silentstriker]

I guess this is the wrong time to tell you that its only a game?

Yea, only. I wish I was in India, I'd be one of those idiots burning effigies. You know its bad when burning effigies seems like the most logical course of action.

Tongue in cheek or not I must stand-up for my fellow county-folk.

Alan Bennett, Anne Brontë, Branwell Brontë, Charlotte Brontë, Emily Brontë, Sir William Empson, Fred Hoyle, Andrew Marvell, J. B. Priestley, and so and and so forth.

Yorkshires literary heritage and the words it has inspired is deep, varied and acclaimed. Keep your criticism for the Indian pace attack

I thought you were South African! It was obviously tongue in cheek, as I've met several folks from Yorkshire who can read quite well.

 

[Anil]

Guys, don't discount the brilliant pace bowling performance by the South African attack. We Indian fans have a habit of getting too caught up in the crapness of our own players every time we get owned instead of realizing that we were owned by quality opposition.

so what? what is that an excuse for? certainly not losing like this....that's exactly when their own toughness and quality should come to the fore....

 

[Beleg]

Yorkshire rules.

It is known.


Tendulkar is cool.

 

[adharcric]

so what? what is that an excuse for? certainly not losing like this....that's exactly when their own toughness and quality should come to the fore....

It's not an excuse, but stop pretending like all of our batsmen just threw their wickets away against trash bowling. Dravid and Tendulkar certainly got great deliveries.
Raina, Mongia and Jaffer were up against good bowling but they were totally at fault for getting out like that.

 

[Dasa]

It's not an excuse, but stop pretending like all of our batsmen just threw their wickets away against trash bowling. Dravid and Tendulkar certainly got great deliveries.
Raina, Mongia and Jaffer were up against good bowling but they were totally at fault for getting out like that.

Yeah exactly. It's not like the South African attack is poor, especially at home. It wasn't so long ago that Australia were owned by the Saffies (even worse than India) either...a poor bowling outfit wouldn't be able to do that to Australia.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah exactly. It's not like the South African attack is poor, especially at home. It wasn't so long ago that Australia were owned by the Saffies (even worse than India) either...a poor bowling outfit wouldn't be able to do that to Australia.

RSA have a good bowling unit, esp. for home conditions. But that doesn't discount the fact that this Indian batting line up, at least IMHO, is the worst ever in the last 15 years. I have certainly not watched an Indian team with a batting line up poorer than this. And on top of that, our bowling attack is only steady at best. Our best bowler happens to be Munaf who is NEVER gonna be a match winner in any form of the game if he continues to bowl like this, around the 128 kmph mark and only "putting the ball there" instead of hitting the track.


And the one thing that does puzzle me is that how "he is a bad fielder" is used selectively by the selectors. Apparently, the fact that Munaf is probably the worst fielder in the game right now means nothing. But the same thing is held against someone like VVS Laxman, and (till recently) against Kumble. And to add to that, VVS is definitely a better fielder than Munaf. And Munaf is only 23 while VVS is 32. Then we have this strange selection of Jaffar. I believe either of Gambhir or Laxman should have been their ahead of him. Vengsarkar saying that "Jaffar is an excellent fielder" is laughable at best. And another selector apparently said that being in the ODI side will help him get accustomed to the conditions and the pitches because with Sachin and Sehwag there, he won't get a game anyway. If that is the logic, why not send Laxman there? He too could use the time to get accustomed to the pitches and stuff. After all, he has more of a chance at being a match winner than Jaffar will ever have. I am sorry to say this but this bunch of selectors we have seem to have been the worst and that's something because this is India we are talking about.


I think the time has come for guys like Chappell, Vengsarkar and Dravid to make some tough choices. If they think fielding and fitness and athleticism are all so important, then let's start off by taking out everyone who isn't fit or athletic by international standards. That would leave out VVS, Kumble, Jaffar, Munaf and a couple of others too.

Or, if some sense finally prevails and they understand that agility in the field and speed between the wickets won't make up for lack of class, then we can start picking our best eleven.


Guys like Raina, Kaif and Pathan need to be dropped for a period now so that they can go back and work on their deficiencies and come back as better players. Same with Munaf and Sreesanth. All these guys have decent to good potential but it needs to be nurtured by playing domestic and A team stuff, not by playing international stuff and getting the stuffing beaten out of them and of their team.


If we want the best batsmen and bowlers in the side, this would be it, I reckon.

Sachin
Sehwag
Laxman
Yuvraj
Dravid
Gambhir
Badrinath
Agarkar
Zaheer
Joginder Sharma
Kumble
Harbhajan
Powar
Dhoni
one of Sreesanth/Munaf/Pathan

 

[adharcric]

Great post. Glad to see someone taking an objective, solution-oriented stance on our dire situation instead of carrying on with the same old whinging tradition.

Our best bowler happens to be Munaf who is NEVER gonna be a match winner in any form of the game if he continues to bowl like this, around the 128 kmph mark and only "putting the ball there" instead of hitting the track.

Munaf really looked to have immense potential when he burst onto the scene with pace. The whole "line and length" obsession is disturbing at such an age. I will take it in the one-day format because it will work but if Munaf starts doing this in test matches we are screwed. Mind you, he already has a habit of alternating between harmless, economical spells and absolutely devastating ones ... this really needs to be sorted out.

And the one thing that does puzzle me is that how "he is a bad fielder" is used selectively by the selectors. Apparently, the fact that Munaf is probably the worst fielder in the game right now means nothing. But the same thing is held against someone like VVS Laxman, and (till recently) against Kumble. And to add to that, VVS is definitely a better fielder than Munaf. And Munaf is only 23 while VVS is 32. Then we have this strange selection of Jaffar. I believe either of Gambhir or Laxman should have been their ahead of him. Vengsarkar saying that "Jaffar is an excellent fielder" is laughable at best. And another selector apparently said that being in the ODI side will help him get accustomed to the conditions and the pitches because with Sachin and Sehwag there, he won't get a game anyway. If that is the logic, why not send Laxman there? He too could use the time to get accustomed to the pitches and stuff. After all, he has more of a chance at being a match winner than Jaffar will ever have. I am sorry to say this but this bunch of selectors we have seem to have been the worst and that's something because this is India we are talking about.

While the Jaffer move is straight-up stupid, I think it's unfair to call Vengsarkar's crew the worst ever. They just took over and already made two brave (more like obvious, but obvious = brave for our selectors quite often) decisions in recalling Kumble and Zaheer. They also seem to be taking a tougher stance on Raina than the previous group was taking.
Let's see how they respond if Raina, Kaif, Mongia and Jaffer continue to fail. If they still don't pick Gambhir and Laxman, then I'll agree with you - they are absolute tools.

Guys like Raina, Kaif and Pathan need to be dropped for a period now so that they can go back and work on their deficiencies and come back as better players. Same with Munaf and Sreesanth. All these guys have decent to good potential but it needs to be nurtured by playing domestic and A team stuff, not by playing international stuff and getting the stuffing beaten out of them and of their team.

Raina definitely needs to go unless he makes a classy knock in South Africa very soon.
Kaif has been treated like crap and probably shouldn't be dropped because he is one guy (Yuvraj apart) who performs with the bat AND in the field. As for Pathan, he was one of the best one-day bowlers in the world just six months ago. He should simply be told to focus on his bowling; this kid is good enough to be a match-winner right now for the one-day side. Munaf and Sreesanth are the only pace bowlers who look at all dangerous in test cricket right now - don't see why you wouuld drop them. India should hire a bowling coach because it really seems our pacemen are not getting any guidance whatsoever. I wouldn't drop these two.

 

[Perm]

Great all round performance by Kallis, for some strange reason we are getting highlights of this game on TV tomorrow so I might be able to comment further.

 

[adharcric]

If we want the best batsmen and bowlers in the side, this would be it, I reckon.

Sachin
Sehwag
Laxman
Yuvraj
Dravid
Gambhir
Badrinath
Agarkar
Zaheer
Joginder Sharma
Kumble
Harbhajan
Powar
Dhoni
one of Sreesanth/Munaf/Pathan

The top five are spot on.
1 Sehwag/Gambhir, 2 Sachin, 3 Laxman, 4 Yuvraj, 5 Dravid
Badrinath is clearly the best replacement for Raina. Not sure what they'll do with Kaif and Mongia, but it will probably depend on whether or not they get thoroughly owned in the ongoing one-day series. With Yuvraj out right now, these guys become even more important.
As long as Yuvraj is out, IMO we should go with seven out of Sehwag-Sachin-Gambhir-Laxman-Dravid-Kaif-Badrinath-Mongia.

Our five best seamers in ODIs are still Zaheer, Agarkar, Pathan, Munaf and Sreesanth.
Joginder should have been brought in long ago and he should still be considered; perhaps in tests instead of ODIs unless Pathan continues to slide.

Dhoni looks to be maturing as a batsman but let's see if he can actually make some valuable knocks in the next month or so.

 

[honestbharani]

The top five are spot on.
1 Sehwag/Gambhir, 2 Sachin, 3 Laxman, 4 Yuvraj, 5 Dravid
Badrinath is clearly the best replacement for Raina. Not sure what they'll do with Kaif and Mongia, but it will probably depend on whether or not they get thoroughly owned in the ongoing one-day series. With Yuvraj out right now, these guys become even more important.
As long as Yuvraj is out, IMO we should go with seven out of Sehwag-Sachin-Gambhir-Laxman-Dravid-Kaif-Badrinath-Mongia.

Our five best seamers in ODIs are still Zaheer, Agarkar, Pathan, Munaf and Sreesanth.
Joginder should have been brought in long ago and he should still be considered; perhaps in tests instead of ODIs unless Pathan continues to slide.

Dhoni looks to be maturing as a batsman but let's see if he can actually make some valuable knocks in the next month or so.

Actually, it was not in exact batting order or anything. I just went with the best 7 batters, best 7 bowlers and a keeper rule.


The reason I had put Joginder in there is because he is in terrific form with the ball (I know it may not amount to much because it is just FC form) and his pace is not all that slower than what Munaf and Pathan are bowling at right now. And he is actually better than both Munaf and Pathan with the bat (maybe not Pathan, gotta give Joginder a few international games before we make that call, I guess.) and maybe in the field too. That is why I think he should be blooded around about now. But honestly, I do think India is in a bit of a mess right now. And if Yuvi isn't back by the WC, I think we are most definitely screwed of even a half decent performance in the WC, unless Sachin can turn the clock back and perform like he did in 96.

 

[honestbharani]

The thing is, I want guys like Kaif and Raina to come back as better players. Kaif still has problems with his strike rate and his range of shots and Raina still has a LOT to learn. These things can only happen if they go back to Ranji and A team cricket. They should be talked to privately by the coach, the captain and the selectors and be told exactly what areas they have to improve on and what areas they are already good at. It will help them and in the long run, help Indian cricket to get better.

 

[silentstriker]

Munaf really looked to have immense potential when he burst onto the scene with pace. The whole "line and length" obsession is disturbing at such an age.

Yes, we are obsessed with this line and length. Irfan went the same way. We need pace, work on your line and length after you get a decent amount of pace. If you don't have at least some pace, you aren't going to trouble anyone, unless you have perfect control like McGrath. 78mph bouncers really aren't going to jar any opposing batsmen.

Mind you, he already has a habit of alternating between harmless, economical spells and absolutely devastating ones ... this really needs to be sorted out.

Well...I wouldn't go that far. He has a habit of alternating between harmless economical spells, and good solid wickettaking ones.

Raina definitely needs to go unless he makes a classy knock in South Africa very soon.
Kaif has been treated like crap and probably shouldn't be dropped because he is one guy (Yuvraj apart) who performs with the bat AND in the field. As for Pathan, he was one of the best one-day bowlers in the world just six months ago. He should simply be told to focus on his bowling; this kid is good enough to be a match-winner right now for the one-day side. Munaf and Sreesanth are the only pace bowlers who look at all dangerous in test cricket right now - don't see why you wouuld drop them. India should hire a bowling coach because it really seems our pacemen are not getting any guidance whatsoever. I wouldn't drop these two.

He isn't though. Pathan is no where near match winning quality at the moment. He can be, but he has to be sent back to Ranji trophy and learn his trade again. His wheels have completely come off. As for Munaf and Sreesanth, neither of them look particularly dangerous, but at least they will take wickets once in a while, so I don't think you should get rid of them for the test matches. Sreesanth shouldn't play ODI's though, I don't see it with him.

And I completely agree with you about the bowling coach. And it has to be a good coach, not necessarily a great former player (i.e Troy Cooley).

 

[Jono]

Munaf was a worse ODI bowler when he first came on the scene then he is now. Do I have to remind you of the drubbing he took in the WI when he was bowling all out pace?

 

[shankar]

And I completely agree with you about the bowling coach. And it has to be a good coach, not necessarily a great former player (i.e Troy Cooley).

Hasn't DeVilliers has been offering to be the bowling coach?

 

[silentstriker]

Munaf was a worse ODI bowler when he first came on the scene then he is now. Do I have to remind you of the drubbing he took in the WI when he was bowling all out pace?

You shouldn't sacrifice pace to learn line and length. We don't need another 80mph line and length bowler. Indian domestic circuit is full of them. Keep your pace, and work on line and length with that pace.

 

[silentstriker]

Hasn't DeVilliers has been offering to be the bowling coach?

Hire him, hire anyone, something's got to change.

 

[Anil]

It's not an excuse, but stop pretending like all of our batsmen just threw their wickets away against trash bowling. Dravid and Tendulkar certainly got great deliveries.
Raina, Mongia and Jaffer were up against good bowling but they were totally at fault for getting out like that.

i did not pretend anything of the sort man, where did you get that idea....but just because one team is good doesn't mean that the other has to fold tent, does it? that's what aggravated me more than the loss, the south africans are a better team especially on their home ground and it will take something extra special for us to come out with a win but to go down without a whimper like that was pathetic....