***Official*** India in South Africa

[Dravid]

Usually, no. Final exams are on, so hell no. Actually that's not the reason.

Ah college life, can't wait for it.

 

[silentstriker]

Even as his bowling woes continue, Irfan Pathan is set to have a session with Wasim Akram in Johannesburg, and India's team management will keep their fingers crossed that it has the desired result. However, given the avalanche of criticism that has come his way in recent times, it's sometimes easy to forget that Pathan made his debut only three years ago.

He started that famous Adelaide Test with the wicket of Matthew Hayden, and then interrupted Steve Waugh's Sydney swansong by nailing him and Adam Gilchrist. Superb displays on the tour of Pakistan merely re-emphasised the feeling that he was indispensable, and though there was the odd blip - like being dropped for the Kanpur Test against South Africa - he quickly became the embodiment of the new generation of Indian cricket, with white ball, red one and bat as well.

Now, despite batting better than most of his illustrious colleagues in the warm-up game at Potchefstroom, Pathan faces an uncertain future. His bowling started to lose some of its zip during the Test series in Pakistan last January, and the decline appeared to become terminal in the Caribbean, where he was dropped for two Tests. It didn't help that he had to battle the enemy within - it's alleged that a senior player sledged him dreadfully en route to the West Indies - in addition to poor form.

Eh?

• What kind of teammate does that to a teammate? In Indian one, I guess.
• If true, what does it say about Pathan that he took it that seriously?

And who can it be? I doubt it would be Sachin, Kumble or Dravid. That leaves Sehwag, Harbhajan, Yuvraj?

 

[Dravid]

Yuvraj is a really nice guy and I have seen interviews of him, so I doubt it could be him. Harbhajan has problems with what he says and if it is true I'm pretty sure it's him

 

[viktor]

What kind of teammate does that to a teammate? In Indian one, I guess.
>> Joe the cameraman
If true, what does it say about Pathan that he took it that seriously?
>>> silly
And who can it be? I doubt it would be Sachin, Kumble or Dravid. That leaves Sehwag, Harbhajan, Yuvraj?
>>> AA?

 

[silentstriker]

What kind of teammate does that to a teammate? In Indian one, I guess.
>> Joe the cameraman

LOL

If true, what does it say about Pathan that he took it that seriously?
>>> silly

And fragile.

And who can it be? I doubt it would be Sachin, Kumble or Dravid. That leaves Sehwag, Harbhajan, Yuvraj?
>>> AA?

LOL, poor guy. I doubt it. Unless he wanted to get rid of the competition.

 

[Jono]

Maybe it was Chappell
*stirs*

But seriously, I was about to ask people's opinions on that article. Its a great article, but do people agree that part of Pathan's downfall has been him trying to strive for extra pace? I reckon, at least at test level, Pathan started to fall away when he got naturally slower for some weird reason. When he first came on the scene, he wasn't a lightning quick but he bowled around McGrath pace. Now he bowls at Chaminda Vaas pace, without any accuracy at all. If Pathan is to become the nowadays Chaminda that'd be great, but I don't think him trying to be faster necessarily resulted in his poor form and loss of accuracy. In Pakistan earlier people such as the great Imran were saying that Pathan has become unpenetrative on flat tracks because of how slow he's become, and when the ball stops swinging he's cannon fodder.

Maybe I'm just confused.

 

[silentstriker]

Maybe it was Chappell
*stirs*

But seriously, I was about to ask people's opinions on that article. Its a great article, but do people agree that part of Pathan's downfall has been him trying to strive for extra pace? I reckon, at least at test level, Pathan started to fall away when he got naturally slower for some weird reason. When he first came on the scene, he wasn't a lightning quick but he bowled around McGrath pace. Now he bowls at Chaminda Vaas pace, without any accuracy at all. If Pathan is to become the nowadays Chaminda that'd be great, but I don't think him trying to be faster necessarily resulted in his poor form and loss of accuracy. In Pakistan earlier people such as the great Imran were saying that Pathan has become unpenetrative on flat tracks because of how slow he's become, and when the ball stops swinging he's cannon fodder.

Maybe I'm just confused.

When he first came on, he was faster than McGrath. McGrath has always been low 80's. Pathan was well into the mid 80's in Australia. Now he's at Vaas pace though.

 

[adharcric]

Perhaps Pathan tried to go for pace and lost his rhythm temporarily. He probably realized that it wasn't working but once you mess with rhythm it's pretty hard to regain. That may be the case.

 

[silentstriker]

Perhaps Pathan tried to go for pace and lost his rhythm temporarily. He probably realized that it wasn't working but once you mess with rhythm it's pretty hard to regain. That may be the case.

Possibly. I am not sure why that would be the case, but experienced bowlers have said that it is hard to get pace back, so you may be right.

 

[silentstriker]

Also, not sure what explains his initial loss of pace.

 

[silentstriker]

Also, not sure what explains his initial loss of pace.

 

[adharcric]

Silly question SS. He's Indian. **** happens.

 

[silentstriker]

Silly question SS. He's Indian. **** happens.

Holy crap! Are you becoming as cynical as me now? Congratulations mate, now just remove that damn sig.

 

[Jono]

Thing is, Zaheer is slower than he was back in 2002/03 yet has come back (so far, don't want to jump the gun or anythng) as a much better bowler. He's still faster than Pathan though.

Irfan's loss of pace was apparently (from what Imran said) all in the way in which he was gripping the ball. Weird thing is, it was said he cut down on his pace to control his swing more, and then when he lost the pace, he probably tried to get it back and then lost his accuracy.

Blah.

 

[silentstriker]

Thing is, Zaheer is slower than he was back in 2002/03 yet has come back (so far, don't want to jump the gun or anythng) as a much better bowler. He's still faster than Pathan though.

I mean you don't have to have pace to be successful. Vaas has been successful and McGrath even more so. But if you don't have the pace to hurry the batsmen, you need to make it up with something. Whether its bounce, control, movement or preferably all three. The slower you bowl, the less you can get away with being inaccurate.

Irfan's loss of pace was apparently (from what Imran said) all in the way in which he was gripping the ball. Weird thing is, it was said he cut down on his pace to control his swing more, and then when he lost the pace, he probably tried to get it back and then lost his accuracy.
.

Yea, thats what I think happened too. Unfortunate, really. But that should never have been allowed to happen. We need a bowling coach - a guy who understands the art of bowling, and more importantly the art of coaching. Someone like Troy Cooley or Wasim Akram if they are available. Its such a fundamental thing, and I am shocked that we don't have one already. We need a full time manager, a fielding coach, and a bowling coach IMO. Its not like we can't afford it.


And it wouldn't hurt to hire a military drill instructor to get the lazy bums off their butts and into the gym.

 

[Jono]

Look at what Bruce Reid did to Pathan (and even Balaji) in the short time he was able to coach them when India were here in Australia.

You can't have 21-23 year old guys teaching themselves.

 

[silentstriker]

Look at what Bruce Reid did to Pathan (and even Balaji) in the short time he was able to coach them when India were here in Australia.

You can't have 21-23 year old guys teaching themselves.

God, I hate the BCCI more with each passing day.

 

[silentstriker]

I mean we're not going to be bouncing out teams with raw pace any decade soon, but you've got to maximize what you have. Its one thing to not ever have a world class bowling attack, but there is absolutely no reason why we can't have a good solid fast medium pace attack thats well coached and is consistent home and away..

I have a feeling we'll always rely on our batting more often than not, but with some proper investment in coaching at all levels, there is no reason to not have an adequate pace attack. It just boggles my mind. Not asking for the WI pace quartet or even Ashes 2005 English attack. Just good solid all around attack. Guys who show up every day and are consistent.

 

[adharcric]

If you look at the pace bowlers we have right now (VRV, Sreesanth, Munaf) it's quite clear that we do have plenty of potential and fire available.
The need for a bowling coach has never been more obvious in the history of mankind.

 

[silentstriker]

If you look at the pace bowlers we have right now (VRV, Sreesanth, Munaf) it's quite clear that we do have plenty of potential and fire available.

Don't know about plenty, but all of them have the ability to be useful contributors. Sreesanth needs to cool down a little bit and work not not getting mentally flayed and losing it completely, Munaf needs to work on his fitness and ability to bowl longer spells, and VRV hasn't played much international cricket yet, so we'll see.

The need for a bowling coach has never been more obvious in the history of mankind.

Absolutely. And they shouldn't necessarily go after the best bowler, they should hire the best coach.