*Official* Fourth Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) 19-23 July

[loterry1994]

?

What did Aus have to chase in the last innings... at Lord's? And had the bowlers done their job at Headingley England would have been chasing north of 300, not 250 (not least because the batsmen wouldn't have had to do as much work under clouds on Day 3!)

it’s all absolute hindsight now but you think the bowlers are to blame for getting out under 260 both innings. That was more on the batters you had smith and marnus holing out to dumb shots. The bowlers did good to restrict England to what they did Cummins captaincy really let it down though. Most people didn’t think we’d even get a lead after the our first innings. Half the dismissals this series have been to dumb stuff or laziness yesterday was another fine exmaplen

 

[Spark]

it’s all absolute hindsight now but you think the bowlers are to blame for getting out under 260 both innings. That was more on the batters you had smith and marnus holing out to dumb shots. The bowlers did good to restrict England to what they did Cummins captaincy really let it down though. Most people didn’t think we’d even get a lead after the our first innings

I said after Australia's innings first innings was that 260 was a perfectly acceptable score in those conditions and if the bowlers did their job Australia would still be well placed in that game. And what do you know, if the bowlers had done their job then Australia would have had a significant first innings lead for a low scoring game. No hindsight bias on going here.

Also I'm sort of implicitly throwing tactics in with the bowling here, the two can't be separated. They bowl to their fields and the fields are set for the bowlers.

 

[GotSpin]

#spooked.


But game nicely setup after day 1 here. I feel 300 is par and Aus are probably going to be +20 of that, at least. And if the cloudy conditions come up when England bat, it could be a tough game for them from there.

Maybe
Think I’ve said this before but I really don’t mind a deep point but a deep mid wicket is really poor

 

[Spark]

Maybe
Think I’ve said this before but I really don’t mind a deep point but a deep mid wicket is really poor

Deep backward point, deep cover, two ring fielders, two slips and a gully, two men on the legside. It's seriously not that hard.

 

[the big bambino]

Chris Woakes doing the equivalent of scoring a couple of late tries to put his team in front at the break. Funny to think he was being written off not long ago for other more established, faster or younger players. England's bowling attack ranges in age between 32 and 40. With one exception Australia's bowler's ages range between 30 and 33. Wonder what would've happened if Greg Chappell was coaching one side and his doppelganger the other? The only bloke out of that lot to get a game would've been Cameron Green.

 

[loterry1994]

I said after Australia's innings first innings was that 260 was a perfectly acceptable score in those conditions and if the bowlers did their job Australia would still be well placed in that game. And what do you know, if the bowlers had done their job then Australia would have had a significant first innings lead for a low scoring game. No hindsight bias on going here.

Also I'm sort of implicitly throwing tactics in with the bowling here, the two can't be separated. They bowl to their fields and the fields are set for the bowlers.

if the batters did their job we’d be up 3-0 like I said it’s all hindsight now still both to blame for test 3. You had the top 4 fall over for nothing and saved by Marsh. Then the2nd innings you had some absolute dumb shots by smith and marnus to gift wickets so what were the batters tactics that test? Don’t tell me they were perfect and got a two desirable scores that test

 

[GIMH]

Chris Woakes doing the equivalent of scoring a couple of late tries to put his team in front at the break. Funny to think he was being written off not long ago for other more established, faster or younger players. England's bowling attack ranges in age between 32 and 40. With one exception Australia's bowler's ages range between 30 and 33. Wonder what would've happened if Greg Chappell was coaching one side and his doppelganger the other? The only bloke out of that lot to get a game would've been Cameron Green.

It’s quite interesting how our attack is all so ‘old’ in the context of this new era of English cricket. I take your point completely and The Ashes should always be about the here and now but this time next year we could have a very different attack which is quite unsettling.

I mean we’ve said that for many years now, but this series is the first where it’s looked like time has caught up with Jimmy. Will Broad want to continue? It may well depend on the result. If we win, is that not the time to go? Especially when you factor in his record in India

 

[Spark]

if the batters did their job we’d be up 3-0 like I said it’s all hindsight now still both to blame for test 3. You had the top 4 fall over for nothing and saved by Marsh. Then the2nd innings you had some absolute dumb shots by smith and marnus to gift wickets so what were the batters tactics that test?

Marnus and Smith have definitely not done well but fortunately we have other batsmen in the team.

 

[honestbharani]

Deep backward point, deep cover, two ring fielders, two slips and a gully, two men on the legside. It's seriously not that hard.

Would go for a more squarish Third man but yeah, 7-2 or even 8-1 can usually do the trick. MSD did it to Aus in India.

 

[loterry1994]

Marnus and Smith have definitely not done well but fortunately we have other batsmen in the team.

and What excuse is that they were in they had decent batting conditions they’re both seniors batsmen and same thing happened this test our batters have collapsed a decent amount with scores that have been decent but could of been scores that put England out the game. Everyone after head have gone for not many most innings as well

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lol missing a one ball is getting owned now?

Yep that's how cricket works when you're a batsman. Only takes one bit of luck and the bowler wins. Bowler's game always has been

 

[social]

The thing that ****s me though is that England haven't even had to attack us to bring out **** bowling. In the majority of the innings the new ball bowling has been trash, so many leg stump half volleys and the like to Crawley in particular when every fool with eyes knows he's strong through midwicket and vulnerable outside off stump.

Mitchell Marsh bowled economically & took 2/32 bowling normally and with regulation fields in the last test

Why better bowlers are being forced to bowl in a different way to how they have taken hundreds of test wickets is a complete mystery

Can guarantee that response from Australian team will be “2-1” & that will be the end of the discussion

 

[Spark]

Would go for a more squarish Third man but yeah, 7-2 or even 8-1 can usually do the trick. MSD did it to Aus in India.

I think we're using different words to describe the same fielding position lol

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yep that's how cricket works when you're a batsman. Only takes one bit of luck and the bowler wins. Bowler's game always has been

Looks like Robinson was right to scream at Khawaja in the first test after 'owning' him when he got him out for 140 odd.

 

[Kraken]

It’s quite interesting how our attack is all so ‘old’ in the context of this new era of English cricket. I take your point completely and The Ashes should always be about the here and now but this time next year we could have a very different attack which is quite unsettling.

I mean we’ve said that for many years now, but this series is the first where it’s looked like time has caught up with Jimmy. Will Broad want to continue? It may well depend on the result. If we win, is that not the time to go? Especially when you factor in his record in India

If you lot win the Ashes (oh god it hurts to type), Broad surely rides off into the sunset. Not that he doesn't have more to give, more that this would be his perfect ending so to speak

 

[Son Of Coco]

it sort of feels like both sides can come away from the day’s play both happy and short changed

which means that we’re nicely poised!!

No, were not nicely poised.

Australia sitting at 420/1 would be nicely poised.

 

[Spark]

If you lot win the Ashes (oh god it hurts to type), Broad surely rides off into the sunset. Not that he doesn't have more to give, more that this would be his perfect ending so to speak

His interview with Sky didn't sound like a man planning to hang up his boots. I can't see him getting games when they tour India but that might only help his longevity - county cricket and big home Tests with no white ball commitments at all is a pretty neat gig for an international cricketer.

 

[the big bambino]

It’s quite interesting how our attack is all so ‘old’ in the context of this new era of English cricket. I take your point completely and The Ashes should always be about the here and now but this time next year we could have a very different attack which is quite unsettling.

I mean we’ve said that for many years now, but this series is the first where it’s looked like time has caught up with Jimmy. Will Broad want to continue? It may well depend on the result. If we win, is that not the time to go? Especially when you factor in his record in India

Still it is amazing that so many bowlers have managed to stay competitive into their 30s. I don't think I've seen this happen before. Your problem might be mitigated by the likes of Potts and Tongue coming in for Broaderson.

England isn't the only team facing age issues. As mentioned Australia's pace attack is getting on. India's too and their situation is worsened due to the fitness concerns over Bumrah. The WI have Gabriel, Roach and Holder over 30. NZ have Boult (at a pinch) Southee Henry Bracewell, Ferguson (though they never pick him he's still available) and Wagner 30+. Tickner will be 30 this year. Jamieson is 28 but injured.

SL have a mix. Only SA and Pakistan have younger attacks. Could be seeing a lot of teams moult in the coming few years.

 

[Spark]

Still it is amazing that so many bowlers have managed to stay competitive into their 30s. I don't think I've seen this happen before. Your problem might be mitigated by the likes of Potts and Tongue coming in for Broaderson.

England isn't the only team facing age issues. As mentioned Australia's pace attack in getting. India's too and their situation is worsened due to the fitness concerns over Bumrah. The WI have Gabriel, Roach and Holder over 30. NZ have Boult (at a pinch) Southee Henry Bracewell, Ferguson (though they never pick him he's still available) and Wagner 30+. Tickner will be 30 this year. Jamieson is 28 but injured.

SL have a mix. Only SA and Pakistan have younger attacks. Could be seeing a lot of teams moult in the coming few years.

Think I speak for most when I say that the last five or so years of Test cricket have been very enjoyable around the world because fast bowlers have dominated on spicier pitches than before. If those quality attacks start falling apart and the pitches become flat again because, you know, #bazball, then I have concerns.

 

[subshakerz]

Haha who was the LBW against?

Think Gilchrist did that in 05. Possibly The Oval to Fred? He’d had his number so stands to the same reason

Asif in 2010.