*Official* Fourth Test at The Oval

[Daemon]

Dravid's wrong imo, a batsmen obviously doesn't know when he's edged it

 

[Cevno]

Cricket Web holds its breath and awaits the response of Cevno (and others)

I'll take the batsman's word without motive for it over anything unlike others, if he has said that.

Dravid saying "i got a feather on it, i think" on star cricket now , so not an "error".

But still can't see how the third umpire could have overturned it on the evidence like Brumby says above.

 

[BoyBrumby]

'Benefit of the doubt' doesn't extend to giving someone not-out when they hit the ball.

Well, true, but, hand on heart, I don't think I could say I'm 100% based on the evidence of the replays.

It looks as if he quite probably did, but enough to overturn? Hmm.

 

[Cevno]

Dravid's wrong imo, a batsmen obviously doesn't know when he's edged it

Marcuss and others say many times they have slaughtered the ball and thought they didn't edge it so.........

Cricketweb holds it's breath to await the response of everyone who said the batsman doesn't know when he has edged it all in the past(and GIMH)....

 

[hazsa19]

Well, true, but, hand on heart, I don't think I could say I'm 100% based on the evidence of the replays.

It looks as if he quite probably did, but enough to overturn? Hmm.

Fair enough. I saw a deflection, the umpire must have seen the same thing. I would say seeing a deflection is enough.

 

[Contra]

Why does Rahul Dravid keep saying "I think I hit it"? I mean.. either you know or you don't know lol. And if you know then you shouldn't be saying "I think".

In any case Rahul's comment doesn't change anything, the DRS.. or rather the way it's used is still very much in question. Absolutely no way that could have been changed based on the evidence.

 

[Cevno]

Why does Rahul Dravid keep saying "I think I hit it"? I mean.. either you know or you don't know lol. And if you know then you shouldn't be saying "I think".

In any case Rahul's comment doesn't change anything, the DRS.. or rather the way it's used is still very much in question. Absolutely no way that could have been changed based on the evidence.

Yeah, found that"i think" and gut instinct thing odd too.

Not like he could have hit anything else which could confuse him either in this case.

 

[GIMH]

Marcuss and others say many times they have slaughtered the ball and thought they didn't edge it so.........

Cricketweb holds it's breath to await the response of everyone who said the batsman doesn't know when he has edged it all in the past(and GIMH)....

Not sure I've ever said that but you carry on

 

[PhoenixFire]

Why does Rahul Dravid keep saying "I think I hit it"? I mean.. either you know or you don't know lol.

No.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't buy it that the batsman always knows. As snicko showed whatever contact there was was minimal, so it's quite possible Dravid is mistaken.

Balance of probability (apparent deflection, faint flicker on snicko and Dravid's own word) is that he did edge it tho

 

[Jacknife]

My initial thought when I saw the straight on replay was that he'd defo got a fine edge on that with a clear deviation. When Hot spot didn't really reveal too much because it wasn't the square leg one, I didn't think the umpire would give it but just recenlty, the umpires have been a bit braver with their decisions. We saw this in the SL series, where if I remember correctly, a couple of calls were given off the back of stump mic that proved spot on.

 

[centurymaker]

"We feed into the simulator information about pitches and the 22 players who might play, and it plays the game a number of times and tells us likely outcomes."

England believe Tendulkar largely gets his runs on the onside until he has made 50 and they have denied him the advantage completely.

Of the 261 balls bowled to Tendulkar by England's fast bowlers till the Edgbaston Test, 254 have pitched outside his off-stump, six have been in the line of the stump and just one beyond leg-stump.

Leamon, nicknamed "Numbers" by England players, breaks down the target area of the pitch into 20 blocks, each 100cm x15cm, in his software and bowlers begin to get a better idea of where to aim against a particular opponent. The software records how many times a ball is pitched in each block and the resulting shot. This data is then used by England bowlers to work out the best areas to bowl to exploit each batsman's weakness.

On the basis of this data, Leamon helps England's coach and captain, Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss, to see clearly which players might do best to a certain ball in a certain situation.

"It helps us in strategy and selection. I've checked the program against more than 300 Tests

England take mathematician's help to silence Tendulkar | Specials | NDTVSports.com

damn, credit has to go to these guys too.


just wow
england miles ahead of india in this regard too

 

[SJS]

I don't buy it that the batsman always knows. As snicko showed whatever contact there was was minimal, so it's quite possible Dravid is mistaken.

Balance of probability (apparent deflection, faint flicker on snicko and Dravid's own word) is that he did edge it tho

Exactly.

Dravid said his "gut feeling" was that he got a faint edge. That is very different from his saying "Oh yeah I nicked it". I am not saying he did or did not but just that a batsman can be in a situation where he cant be too sure. If that wasn't the case, Dravid would have gone for the revirew the other day inspite of the sound because he hadn't nicked that one. but he wasn't sure and chose to ask the non-striker.

The issue here, therefore, is not what Dravid feels but what the 3rd umpire considered to over turn the field umpire's decision and that had to be "conclusive evidence from technological inputs that showed the field umpires decision to be patently incorrect"

This does not appear to be the case even if Dravid did nick it and that is the point being debated.

 

[Burgey]

Ill be honest - I did tbf. I'm obviously happy with his performance but IMO his lean patch warranted a drop. I just dont think he deserved his place on merit during that time (eg prior to the wi series and probably a year or so before). I don't have anything against older players so would have been fine with repicking him if he scored domestically.

I understand your POV.

It's no coincidence is it, that the two batsmen who've done best vs England for India and us, are the two with the tightest defensive techniques? Dravid and Hussey.

Kind of makes me happy to see such technical tightness and proficiency come to the fore.

 

[hazsa19]

Exactly.

Dravid said his "gut feeling" was that he got a faint edge. That is very different from his saying "Oh yeah I nicked it". I am not saying he did or did not but just that a batsman can be in a situation where he cant be too sure. If that wasn't the case, Dravid would have gone for the revirew the other day inspite of the sound because he hadn't nicked that one. but he wasn't sure and chose to ask the non-striker.

The issue here, therefore, is not what Dravid feels but what the 3rd umpire considered to over turn the field umpire's decision and that had to be "conclusive evidence from technological inputs that showed the field umpires decision to be patently incorrect"

This does not appear to be the case even if Dravid did nick it and that is the point being debated.

If the umpire saw the same deviation I saw, there is no problem.

 

[Burgey]

Marcuss and others say many times they have slaughtered the ball and thought they didn't edge it so.........

Cricketweb holds it's breath to await the response of everyone who said the batsman doesn't know when he has edged it all in the past(and GIMH)....

I'll say it. I've hit the ground and edged one to second slip and waited for the umpire.

I've done that because:

1. I didn't look around as I didn't think I hit it
2. I'm Australian
3. The opposition were a pack of ****s

 

[Scaly piscine]

Can't believe people were whinging about the Dravid decision. The deviation is blatant, or are you lot now going to argue that there's a chance it might have merely been a fart from silly point?

 

[SJS]

I understand your POV.

It's no coincidence is it, that the two batsmen who've done best vs England for India and us, are the two with the tightest defensive techniques? Dravid and Hussey.

Kind of makes me happy to see such technical tightness and proficiency come to the fore.

Thats interesting. I would have put it differently. According to me the batsmen who will do best in English conditions (against quality bowling naturally) will be those who will havethe best footwork, Those with great footwork (early and precise) have the best idea of where their off stump is and are the best judges of line and length and in the best position to leave the ball or play it with their bodies in the best position.

Then they could be defensive players like Dravid, Hussey and Gavaskar or stroke players like Lara, Richards and Sobers. Even if you go back further in time people like Bradman had great footwork. Sobers and Lara moved fully forward and fully back and across in very quick movements and were almost never found in a bad position with their feet, Yet they were all stroke players.

The other thing that has made a difference is that those who favour just front foot movement do not succeed. Those who have consistently done well in England have had great front foot - footwork but have been terrific backfoot players as well. All those named above as well as others fall in this category.

Footwork is the key to playing the laterally moving ball.

On the dead wickets that the sub-continental players are brought up, the lack of footwork is not penalised and hence we have the great number of batsmen who fail in England, South Africa and even New zealand (quality bowling again being a given) even when they make mince meat of the same bowlers in their own backyard.

 

[SJS]

Can't believe people were whinging about the Dravid decision. The deviation is blatant, or are you lot now going to argue that there's a chance it might have merely been a fart from silly point?

No mate. It is not about Dravid being given out and how it will be a game changer. I know that is the term Ganguly and Shastri have used. I dont think that matters. Dravid could have been given out by the field umpire for the same incident and he would have gone without asking for a review since he thinks he got an edge and India would have been in the same situation as they are now.

For me at least the point id how do we make the UDRS system work optimally and for that the interpretation of the 3rd umpire and his brief on what is expected of him must be very clear and well spelt out and consistently followed other wise we will continue to have the spectacle of BCCI and their lackies screaming against this system which would be a tragedy.

So no, this is not about whinging about a decision that went against India. Quite the contrary.

 

[Burgey]

Thats interesting. I would have put it differently. According to me the batsmen who will do best in English conditions (against quality bowling naturally) will be those who will havethe best footwork, Those with great footwork (early and precise) have the best idea of where their off stump is and are the best judges of line and length and in the best position to leave the ball or play it with their bodies in the best position.

Then they could be defensive players like Dravid, Hussey and Gavaskar or stroke players like Lara, Richards and Sobers. Even if you go back further in time people like Bradman had great footwork. Sobers and Lara moved fully forward and fully back and across in very quick movements and were almost never found in a bad position with their feet, Yet they were all stroke players.

The other thing that has made a difference is that those who favour just front foot movement do not succeed. Those who have consistently done well in England have had great front foot - footwork but have been terrific backfoot players as well. All those named above as well as others fall in this category.

Footwork is the key to playing the laterally moving ball.

On the dead wickets that the sub-continental players are brought up, the lack of footwork is not penalised and hence we have the great number of batsmen who fail in England, South Africa and even New zealand (quality bowling again being a given) even when they make mince meat of the same bowlers in their own backyard.

SJS... I love you man.

So true that. I mean, footwork comes with form too. Tendullar's footwork is fantastic normally but he's out of sorts.

This series of Dravid though, it's the stuff of legend really. Just been wonderful to watch a bloke play the conditions, respect the bowling. I mean, everyone else has been worked out and worked over.

Robelinda will do a highlights reel of it, about 30 minutes long, comprising leaves, defense and attack, so I can show my young bloke how to play quality fast bowling. It's been that good.

Thanks Rob